Insights on PBS Hawaiʻi is sponsored by Carlsmith Ball.

Aloha State Daily and the University of Hawaiʻi Cancer Center.

With Derek Kawakami reaching his term limit.

Kauaʻi County residents will elect a new mayor in November.

Two men with deep ties to the community are vying for the seat.

Kauaʻi County Council Chair Mel Rapozo, who led the primary, and former mayor and current council member Bernard Carvalho Jr here, where they stand on the issues ahead of what will be a hotly contested race.

Tonight's live broadcast and live stream of insights on PBS Hawaiʻi.

Start now.

Aloha and welcome to insights on PBS.

I'm Daryl Huff, and a little over two weeks, registered voters will receive their general election ballots in the mail.

For Kauaʻi County voters, they'll be deciding who they want to lead the county for the next four years while they'll be voting for a new mayor.

The candidates on the ballot are not new to serving the county.

We look forward to your participation in tonight's show.

You can email or call in your questions, and you'll find a live stream of this program at PBS and a PBS YouTube page.

Now to our guests.

Bernard Carvalho junior is a lifelong resident of Kauaʻi.

He currently serves on the Kauaʻi County Council and was previously mayor of the county from 2008 to 2018.

Back in the day, he was a pro football player in the NFL with the Miami Dolphins and was also born and raised on Kauaʻi and is the chair of the county council.

He served on the council for nearly two decades.

Prior to that, he spent 13 years with the county police department and 21 years on the Hawaiʻi Air National Guard.

Now, usually for these programs, we decided in advance we get to the first question.

We didn't do that.

Okay, so guys, we've decided on a way of doing it.

Go for it.

Ready?

000.

So he wins.

He wins.

Okay.

So, Mr.

Rapozo, what right now is the biggest challenge facing the county?

I know we just had a big storm.

And what would you say is the biggest challenge you face as mayor when you get started?

That's a tough question because we we have our normal priorities that we got to address.

And I think Bernardo will agree that the the priorities kind of got mixed up recently with the storm number one, but also that massive fire that that hit our building, which housed our planning department, real property tax department and our DMV.

But worse was in the basement of that building was our central nervous system.

The IT, the whole IT network was on there and that got completely destroyed.

So I think number one priority is getting our systems up and running.

It's very difficult to move forward with anything else right now until we get our our systems up and running.

That that IT infrastructure is what all departments rely on.

And right now it is it is it has been destroyed.

So it's going to be a problem.

Sir, do you agree with that assessment?

Where do you feel like that's the first thing you kind of that is at the forefront, like Mel just said from boredom?

I mean, for me too, because that's the the heart of our operations, right?

And at least I know for that recently our IT operations at least has a place to go now.

I mean, that's located nearby but to continue to operate.

But definitely that's a critical area right now that we all got to really address.

What are you guys done able to do right now?

What are the things you can't do right.

Well, there's access to internet, access to operations I call calling the island the other day and the phones didn't work in the county.

Is that still the situation overall?

I mean, some some is not working, some is working.

But I think we're still going through this very critical time of addressing this issue that happened for for our community.

Is that a big dollar issue?

It will be it will be the IT the IT infrastructure will be a very high ticket item.

We're slowly getting the phone systems up.

Every day we get a few more circuits up.

The bigger issue is our network drives that that house all of the data that that is being used by all of our departments.

There is there is a very aggressive effort to restore those drives that all departments require.

So very critical and same thing.

I mean, looking at whatever internally that we got to do and then making sure it's team, the staff is all supported as well.

Right.

And can come to work and make sure that we can get the information flowing.

So that's the big point.

That's Mayor Kawakami’s problem right now primarily you guys are on the council but you know so let me let me start with with on this as mayor.

How do you attack a problem like that.

You know is that what would you organize things to attack a problem with that?

I think the administration is, is currently we just we're blessed with a, with a just in fact cities council meeting accepting a, a donation of consulting services from a consultant and IT consultant that is highly regarded in Zuckerberg.

No no no no.

It's a it's right there on Kauaʻi.

I mean, yeah, I mean, but the value estimated at about $100,000 worth of services that this, this consultant will be advising.

And I think Mayor Kawakami and his administration will will put, put the the machine in motion.

And I think for, for the next mayor and the next administration funding and securing funding for the remediation of these systems, it's going to be paramount kind of striking, because it's it's just now is the 1st of October and you guys aren't taking office until January, right?

Or is it late?

So you expect that it's still going to be a problem when you become married?

Well, yeah, definitely.

Yeah.

It's going to be a problem.

It's going to take a while.

I mean, it could be a year or two years overall.

But in the meantime, to assure that whatever's under Mayor Derek, right now that we just continue moving forward in this consistent flow and we all are involved and listening and being aware, because whatever happens when we take office, at least we can continue that and ensure that the resources are are available and we have the funding or whatever we need to do.

Let me let me go stick with you.

Let's go another level down from that.

What what else needs to be addressed immediately in the county?

I think besides that, just making sure that, the biggest thing for me right now is, if I may, within the county of it is the right on the landfill is a big one.

Oh, go ahead.

And I want to dive right into that, because, with the current operations is one thing, but overall our landfill is about to, expire, if you will.

You know, as far as in the Kekaha, the current landfill is is really moving to that level, how much time they have.

So right now it's about addressing it sooner than later.

But within eight years, 8 to 10 years, I think it should be.

But you got to start now.

So there's a current landfill and then there's a landfill.

That is the new landfill site, which is the model site.

So there's two paths happening.

And as mayor within that time frame have been involved in citing the new landfill, going through the process, making sure we have the new site and at the same time addressing the closing of the older landfill.

It's going to take time, but we've got to address it sooner than later because it's a big issue for Island.

What's the challenge of doing that?

Landfills are like one of the toughest political issues as well too.

Yeah, I mean, I think just the critical infrastructure, landfill and wastewater, probably the top two as well as our Department of Water.

But to Bernard's point, the time left at at Mana Landfill is, is actually if we get the, the okay to do another expansion, we may have eight years or ten years, but right now, currently without any expansion, we're looking at three.

You know, most people are not going to be that familiar with Kauaʻi.

So and I frankly, I don't know exactly where these places are, but you've got a current primary county landfill and you've got another place that is also a landfill.

Now we have we have one landfill and that's out in Kekaha, but we call it on the Mānā Plain.

But it's Kekaha and that's been there from the side on the west side.

And they've had phase one original phase, which is unlined.

There is no liner.

Back then they didn't require lining.

So you got trash to dirt and that's what's there.

And we have phase two which was lined.

And the current plan is to expand phase one up on an on line landfill, which is creating some issues with the community.

If we get the okay to move forward with that, then we can buy another 8 to 10 years.

But even even then, and Bernard talks about Maʻalo Road, and I guess I'm not as optimistic as Bernard is as far as Maʻalo, because there are some issues that that, that where is the road that is up in Kapaia, right between Līhuʻe and Hanamaʻulu?

Okay, up where the willow Falls are.

And and you know, it's it's it's a site that was selected many, many years ago.

But it comes with some challenges.

It comes with challenges.

It's being it's too close to the airport.

So the Federal Aviation Administration is not supportive.

The state Department of Transportation because of the birds, because it'll attract birds.

Anything outside of five miles from the the airport is not there.

Not much room on Kauaʻi for exactly.

And having been involved with that previous hat at the Maʻalo site, the sighting of the landfill, the process we had to go through the big vision was to create the Disneyland of waste, reduce, reuse, recycle, and in that location had to get the community support the community.

And I know the birds are an issue, but I in my conversations I've had recently, we've kind of moved on from that.

I think that the location is there, it's cited.

It's a location that I believe can work sooner than later.

It's going to take time and effort, like I said, but I've gone through the process, though.

So when you were mayor, you had to go through this process.

And now if you get elected again, you'll be inheriting the process.

And it sounds like Mel is not quite on board with that, that location.

Well, Mel is on board if we can get the proper approvals from the federal government.

But again, you know, the the federal government and the state Department of Transportation are two entities that needs to approve this because the state manages the airport, but the federal government manages the airspace.

So that's the dilemma.

And and while the state Department of Transportation might be, according to our administration, verbally saying it's okay, we haven't gotten any assurance from the federal government that that site is going to be okay.

And there's also some water, natural water springs up there that might that concerns me quite a bit.

And for me.

I've addressed that my previous when I was mayor, to go through all the water and all the issues.

Everything was planned, but it didn't move forward the way it should have moved forward.

So this is eight years later.

So we did our homework, we worked with the community.

We opened up the opportunities there at the Maʻalo site, which is centrally located versus well on the west side, and then going through all the process to assure that we can build it.

The landfill, there was a landfill and there was property that was going to be, I mean, the reduced cycle and then the landfill.

But today we do not have that property anymore.

So things have shifted.

But when I transition, everything was ready.

You know, the community was accepting that that location too.

So that was a big part.

So is it something that was neglected by the Kawakami?

I'm not going to say neglected.

Everybody has their own decision making process, you know, and they try to stay within the area.

I'm saying that for me, the transition was ready and now we're in this situation.

Let me move on now, because I think the thing that even though these are very important issues to the island of Kauaʻi, the person on the other part of the state is going to say, what about the hurricane?

You just had a hurricane.

Aren't you talking about the hurricane?

So please describe to me where you think the priority needs to be in moving on from there.

How do you where do you stand as an island and where do you need to move?

What do you need to do next?

Well, recovery efforts exceeded my expectations.

I will just say that straight up QC, our utility co-op, got power back up in a lot sooner than I had expected.

So in that sense, a lot of people got power.

We still got pockets.

Communities that are still suffering.

The North Shore, for example, we talked about before the show and some areas on the west side.

So as far as the power being restored, phenomenal efforts, you know, now is the recovery.

The bigger problem that I see right now is the the, the lack of visitors that have come to the island and the economic impact will, will be with us for quite a long time now.

And that is a huge concern because we've already saw some small businesses shut down.

And, you know, once they shut down, it's very difficult to bring them back.

And some, some major businesses, you know, Kilohana at Gaylord’s has shut down and there's quite a few.

So that's concerning visitor rates.

I was just talking to some people today, you know, about a 15 to 20% occupancy.

There was a real cliff.

I wanted to say I was so used to you as mayor, but, where do you think that recovery is going to come from?

What do you have to do?

Or do you do you agree that that right now is the biggest challenge?

Yeah, it's it's a challenge there.

But it's also we're still going to some media issues based upon like on the North Shore, our streams, you know, maintenance, you know, all of that stuff is still at the table.

And then the tourism part is a big part, like was mentioned by Mel.

But I think, addressing right now the disaster part of it and how we can continue to provide whatever support.

I mean, even just now the rains happen and it's flooding down in the wine as we speak again.

So we've been trying I'm kind of the boots on the ground kind, getting out there, talking to the people, hearing their voices.

But there's a lot of issues on the two critical areas that I know was on the North Shore area and then in the the West side area, certain areas on that side because they didn't have electricity and water.

So I think adjusting that as sooner than later is a big part.

How do you you know how I asked you guys this the other day when we were just chatting.

How did it affect your campaigns?

I mean, you had this thing hit right in the middle of a campaign, the boat that we said, the balance of the ballots are kind of hit in a couple of weeks.

And, you know, how did it affect your campaign?

What did you do when this thing hit?

Well, we we basically put our campaign on pause.

We just we until today, we we have basically stopped all campaign activities, you know, to the disappointment of our committee who believe we should be out there.

But, you know, when, when we are facing, as Bernard said, these pockets, of of people struggling, you know, now is not the time to be out there asking for money or or promoting ourselves.

I just think that we now is the time that we all got to work together to get everybody back up to where they were.

I will say that, you know, we we have learned in this, this storm that we need to be better prepared prior to the storm in those areas that we know are vulnerable, like the North Shore.

We need to have those assets, their generators and and water and really, really focusing on the needs.

So that should another storm hit that areas, you know, the assets that are required to get them to recover quickly quicker would be on site.

Let me go ahead.

And for me, having solid relationships, we were able to actually do, like I said, boots on the ground, get out there, deliver diesel, deliver.

And this all this no nothing campaign.

This is off working hard within a year, volunteers, working brothers and sisters providing the support, bringing, you know, supplies in, getting that diesel and getting the gas that we needed.

The community came out and they worked hard using their machines and stuff to help clear and and maintain.

This is truly on collaborative effort that took place, you know, and still till today, we're still going through some issues right now as we speak.

So I want to address that and keep addressing it.

We got started to get questions now in from viewers, and I want to honor them by picking up the pieces.

Eric and Kailua asks, what should the county change or do differently to prepare for another hurricane, which seems likely to happen at some point.

You just mentioned having more, assets in place in the areas, but what else needs to happen?

And, you know, awful lot of the places that were damaged were really close to the ocean.

Yeah.

I mean, I think number one, we really got to do a really good job on educating the public and getting convincing the public to be self prepared.

I, you know, we recommend 14 days of food and water.

And so getting that in place, it's difficult because people I tell you, you know, you keep getting these false alarms on hurricanes and then people get complacent.

But as far as the county side, you know, communication is crucial.

You know, we did not have a radio station going.

We typically we would have Kong radio or and because of the lack of power, there was really no communication whatsoever.

So so you didn't even have an AB station.

We don't have any station.

So it's it's difficult.

We all had that solar powered radios, the emergency radios.

But you couldn't hear anybody.

And I think that is real critical that in the, in the pre-planning for, for disasters, we got to make sure I call them resilience hubs that every, every community needs a resilience hub.

In that hub you would have the the necessary.

Again I call them assets.

It's a military.

You know, I spent 21 years there and I was in a mobile unit.

So I'm very familiar with with the the assets that are available and making sure that when, when the storm hits and we're, we're able to get out, you know, power up, power up the radio station with, with a generator ASAP.

So the public has a direct link to the communication.

That is important.

But again, what should the county do to prepare differently?

Yeah.

And again, you know, it's not when if it's going to happen, it's when number one.

Number two is I've gone through major flooding.

Landslides.

It depends.

You'll never know how severe and what type of disaster is coming your way.

So like the hubs like I mentioned, we're working on each community center area or whatever community area that has on the supplies needed and really work within the community and provide the support before the disaster comes.

And you'll never know how severe.

The other one that was big for me is assuring that we have access after the disaster, of course, but there's opportunities to bring a barge in.

We did that before.

We can bring supplies down to the North Shore.

So there's the using the waterways as well.

The ocean side of it was a big part, at least thinking about it and opening that door as well, because a lot of times the landslide is all you know, when you also mentioned that, you know, a tsunami could take out your your harbor.

Yeah.

Very both your heart.

So which ever happens you're not sure.

Maybe it's not the this time.

It's this time.

Maybe it is a scenario.

You need bypass roads and bypass.

That's a big one.

Again, I think, you know, being in the military in a mobile unit, you know, I deployed where, equipment and water or fuel was sling then by helicopter.

And that could have been done.

And I think that's what what's important is speaking the same language with, with our military leaders that are Hawaiʻi Emergency Management Agency, so that, you know, we can get those resources here quickly.

Yeah.

You know, one of the things that was interesting about the conversation you folks had before on, on another program was you both seem to be, you both seem to be interested in figuring out how to get people off the shoreline, away from the vulnerable areas as you rebuild.

Let me start with you.

As you rebuild, will you limit who can build back on the shoreline?

Well, people, some people who lost their their property not be able to build back like like it's happening on Maui.

Yeah.

To me that's a big issue, you know.

And of course we got to look at that.

And as mayor, I want to make sure that we adjust it.

And if the timing is right, this is what we need to address and look at the different processes in place.

But I think that's a critical area right now because you build again and here we go.

It's setting up for it's not if it's going to happen, it's when.

So that stuff that we need to look at I'll definitely jump into because we did that before too.

And what are the boundaries that we need to place.

So how do you see that working though?

Like you draw a new line and you tell someone, we don't want you there, and if their property is now too small to develop, you buy it.

Do you?

What do you do?

All of that we discuss all of that, what you just said and seeing what is the best solution, if you will.

But at the same time, that location is open to disasters and you might lose everything.

So why not give options and look at different opportunities there?

And, and I've talked to some of those people and they're willing to to look at it and discuss it because it's going to happen.

And look what they got down.

Yeah, that's exactly what happened.

So and that's the same people that we're trying to address.

How do you feel about that particular issue?

I mean it's pretty simple.

We have we have laws in place.

We have our county code that that specifies the shoreline setback areas.

Some of these properties that were impacted by this storm will not be able to build, and they will not be able to comply with the shoreline setback, the new amendments that we just did.

So you don't see, having exemptions because of the fact that the person had that property there, that and it got wiped out.

You still don't want them to build back where they were.

If they're inside that outside that line.

Well, there's, there's again, there's a there's no option of what's in the law if that if they have to build a much smaller house, they'll still have to comply with the shoreline setback.

And and you know, that'll change now because the house was completely destroyed.

They're going to have to get a new shoreline setback determination.

And that's going to create again some some adjustments by these property owners.

And and you know that people look at the storyline setback as how do we preserve our beaches.

But it's really there to protect the health and safety of the property owners and the residents.

And and that is the for me as the mayor, that would be my my first concern is making sure we're protecting life and property.

Okay.

Starting to get an interesting question.

So Annette asks our property tax is structured fairly in Kauaʻi County.

There are lots of areas with wealthy landowners who do not live here year round.

Should they pay more?

Well, I mean, do you the common problem on every county, snowbirds or property owners who are offshore, are they taxed enough on Kauaʻi, in your opinion?

There they do pay more.

Our absentee owners pay more.

We have owner occupant nonlinear occupant properties.

If and Kauaʻi is unique, they tax to the highest and best use.

So if they're on a property that has the ability to do a vacation rental, they get taxes on the vacation rentals.

So some of these people are paying extremely high taxes.

Do I think it's fair across the board?

I think we I think that is just one of the things that I'm really going to be looking at is a true reform of our real property tax system.

Right now, we tax one tax rate on land and structure.

We used to have two separate assessments, two different tax rates.

Me personally.

And one of the things we will explore immediately is going back to that old system where we can have two separate rates for the properties and each the land gets assessed and the structure gets assessed separately.

I'm sure you're familiar with what he's saying.

Yeah.

I mean overall I mean the tax, the tax rates, you know, really we value everything.

And assuring that, you know, right now like was mentioned that they do pay what they got to pay.

You know some of them.

But at the same time we got to make sure it's balanced out.

And there is a process in place that we can work towards.

And as mayor, making sure that the team will assure that.

How healthy is it, County financially?

I mean, is there enough coming in in the tax system to to do what you need to do?

I got one question here that I wanted to venture was, let me tell you why.

Let me let me tell you.

Before the storm and before the fire.

Yes.

There's going to be there's going to have to be some creative decisions and really.

Yeah.

So you guys are running into a budget shortfall now on the books.

It is a good there's not I don't think it's a shortfall.

But there's definitely going to have to be adjustments in the budget.

Major adjustments.

Where's the revenue loss or the cost is is it more that you have costs that you get or is it a revenue loss the added cost and cost part.

Yeah.

Yeah I mean it's a little both you know because we will see some revenue loss.

We'll see assessments drop again.

So tax revenue will decrease.

But I think more importantly is the cost that it will take us.

We do have insurance but the insurance is not going to be enough.

And a lot is going to be determined on what we can get back from FEMA as reimbursement and assessments and all of that to that's a big one.

And then, yeah, whatever you can get back from FEMA.

But in general, I mean, that's a big area that we need to address overall because it can you are kind of laughing because it sounds like it's so big.

It's going to be it's a challenge you guys.

Oh sorry.

It's okay.

How do we address you know, make sure that every time you try and set something here there's another obstacle that comes our way.

But that's how it is.

You got to balance it out and see what is the best processing goal.

The one positive for me anyway, as I see it, is that this next administration of this next mayor will have the opportunity to basically start from scratch.

You know, we kind of lost everything in we lost our property tax system.

We lost our you're talking about the fire again the fire.

And and so you know and I and I asked the the managing director met with Bernard and I last week and saying, hey this is kind of what you guys are going to get.

And I asked the managing director, please, if there's systems that you guys are going to change, please have the courtesy to allow the next administration to to make that decision.

So when you talk about the big cost, that's the big cost is replacing that infrastructure correct?

Yes.

That burned.

Yeah.

Well the infrastructure in the basement, the IT infrastructure got flooded because of the fire.

Firefighters like well that's interesting because everybody is so focused on the hurricane.

I don't think anybody realized right now we focusing on that.

That's a big, big part.

Yeah.

How much money is it going to cost?

Have you got any idea yet I hundreds of millions.

Not a hundred, but tens of millions.

Tens of millions.

Remember, we're not.

We're not the city and county.

Yeah, that's a lot of money.

You're thinking city, county, Honolulu to drop in a bucket.

But for us, it's it's it's going to be.

And the timing and the length of time that it's going to take, that's another big one, you know, to, to get back to.

But there's also there's also storm related damages that we got to repair.

There's the parks and there's a lot of things that that need repair as well.

It's just that operationally.

So it's hard when I think it's hard when people like you ask us, what's your top priority?

Because it's hard to pick one.

And the fact that we have one that we've got to get the systems up doesn't mean that we are neglecting or ignoring the others.

So maybe you shouldn't have.

You know, I think, I mean, I think it's a great question though, because without the systems in place, we number one, we cannot put our our employees back in that office until it is safe.

That is number one.

So that whole office, how is a lot of employees.

So now we have them all over the place possibly looking at leasing private office space.

So it's going to increase the cost of operations for the county.

Let me bring up another issue that is also a kind of a statewide issue.

Is the is the short term vacation rentals.

Now, I always hear that Kauaʻi sort of has this wrestled to the ground is acceptable, but what is the status of the short term rental industry?

And can you go there to start solving your housing problem, like get people change those short term rentals into long term rentals?

Do you think that's something that is Kauaʻi needs to do?

Again, that's another area we've been talking about so long, you know, and looking at the long term or short term rentals, long term rentals, I think that's an issue that needs to be addressed.

Overall.

How do you guys handle it now?

Right now we're just working to see how we can manage it and what kind of cost it would be.

And how do we, bring the, the, the solutions hopefully to even a big part of this is a big part.

Yeah, yeah.

We have, we have, we have a large number and I think it's I was on a council in 2008 when we passed the, the TVR ordinance, where we basically banned all TVR outside of the visitor destination area.

But because of grandfathering, right.

And property rights, we had to create a noncompliance use certificate.

So those that were legally operating before the ordinance passed could continue.

And up until a couple of years ago, the legislature did not give the counties the authority to amortize or to get rid of those nonconforming.

It finally did that after the Maui fire.

So now you have the authority to do.

Correct.

So what I what I am going to propose is that at the time of sale of these non-compliant uses, that they would lose, the use of the TVR permit would go away.

That would free up a lot of inventory in our residential areas that are outside of the visitor destination area to be used for local housing.

Same way, even with the TVRs, you know, that's a big one, right?

We can move this on that way and then come back and provide the support there.

There'll be.

So you guys basically agree on that issue because we've gone through it in so many different ways, you know, and I think that's a critical area right now and how we manage that.

And as leaders to bring the resources in and deal with it, you'll have a fight on your hands.

You know, I will say this, our planning department created an enforcement division of the planning, and they do a really great job enforcing the TVRs.

The illegal TVR is, I will say, Kauaʻi is unique.

Many years ago, our planning department got into an agreement with with VRBO and Airbnb.

So now, before all of the illegal and legal vacation rentals were being hosted on these platforms, and now with an agreement that we we have set with those those platforms, they are required to be legally operating on Kauaʻi.

So all of the illegal ones don't show up on VRBO’s.

They show up on the underground platforms.

So there's still an issue and, you know, very aggressive and effective enforcement of those illegal vacation rentals need to occur.

And the biggest part was the enforcement.

And how do we provide and continue to provide that is that is that pay for itself?

If you if you get good enforcement because you've got people paying higher taxes now if they get caught.

Yes.

To me, that's the way we got to go.

And the enforcement part is very important.

And following through on it.

And that to me again is very critical.

Kauaʻi Kauaʻi's penalty for vacation rentals is $10,000 a day.

I think Honolulu is too, but they don't know about they don't know.

Well, I mean, again, you have a lot it's not enforced.

It's really like you don't have a law.

Yeah.

Okay.

A couple of interesting questions about cesspools.

There's a tremendous number of cesspools on the island.

I think that one of the things that we're seeing after the storm is people complaining that their whole neighborhoods are polluted by all the all the whatever coming up.

Right.

You know, how do you get that problem solved on Kauaʻi?

We're going to that right now, you know, to address our cesspool conversion.

And we get certain timelines.

And so we're trying to work closely with our, we, we saw the department and everybody else.

But the bottom line is to provide opportunities for families to be able to, address it.

There's another plan that I thought was interesting to, you know, it's just conversion and all that because 20, 20, 30 and so maybe being able to connect 2 or 3 pools, maybe and working it together or because the cost of it is very not just.

So what you're talking about septic system.

I mean I'm sorry.

Yeah.

The septic, that's what I mean.

So connect people together and share a 2 or 3 and then you share the septic system.

And in the next one like that I mean that's just putting that on the table.

The part is just conversion.

Right.

And so to me that's being outside of the box, but at the same time addressing it as soon as possible.

You're in that, you know, we get asked this question all the time.

And my my response is always the same.

That state law is that was done.

That puts a deadline of 2050 is not conversion of everything.

Sorry.

It requires everybody.

And I can tell you Kauaʻi has a has the most cesspools and we just don't have the ability what that law did.

And I've asked representative or speaker Nakamura you got some power in the legislature you guys.

Well we have it.

And I've asked her to revisit that.

And, you know, I can understand requiring those cesspools that are directly impacting our environment close to the streams and oceans and the water.

But there are a lot of cesspools that are up mauka that are nowhere near water and are, you know, working fine.

And the reality of skeptics is not that much better to the environment than a cesspool.

So this was an attempt by the legislature to say, hey, we're doing environmentally sound legislation.

But the reality, you know, what happened with that?

It was the cost of a septic now.

And I'll use my house in this example.

What was $24,000 to put a septic into on my property is now 64,000.

And if you go to and color those areas that the blue rock underneath, it's upwards of 100,000.

And as we get closer to that deadline, the price is just going to go up because of basic economics, supply and demand.

So I think that that whole law needs to be revisited.

And if if the law if the state decides to keep that active, that 2050 deadline, then they're going to have to come up with some, some incentives and some some funding to offset.

Our people cannot afford that.

No way.

What is it, 2050?

Where's Kauaʻi lacking.

You know municipal source systems.

You know like I that's one of the things that I was here.

We look at the North Shore of Oʻahu a lot of cesspools up there.

And there's talk about oh well you know the city can charge everybody more and then move the sewer system out further.

Is that something that's not possible because of its topography.

And it's it's just, you know, the where the water table is and so on.

I think it's part of that as well.

But I think we've been talking about it and seeing what kind of options we do have.

And I think working closely with our team members and everybody else needs to see what is the best fit for for our island.

Just the layout itself is having a hard time to address it.

You know, early on when you asked me about priorities, I talked about the critical infrastructure.

Wastewater was one of them.

And, you know, I think this county over, over the last couple of decades did not, did not plan for sewer rising Kaua'i.

And I think that is why we're where we are today.

To upgrade our sewer system is going to be very, very expensive.

But I believe that that it needs to start now.

And it starts with a sewer plan.

Determining what communities on Kauaʻi are, the low hanging fruit that we can start.

And, you know, we're not going to get the whole island sewer rise.

We know that.

But we can get a few of these communities and at least release the burden of them having to do the septic conversion.

Yeah.

The septic conversion.

Yeah.

Okay.

Interesting pair of questions here.

One person just says viewer lost a visitor since the storm.

Please ask for people to come visit Kauaʻi.

And then the other one was what are your plans for diversity in the economy instead of relying on tourism?

That's Lynn from Kauaʻi.

Let's talk about tourism.

I mean, you rely on it.

You know, Kauaʻi has some diversification, but.

Where do you see getting a little bit more different kind of jobs on Kauaʻi?

Yeah, tourism is is a big part of our state.

But for Kauaʻi and having been myself involved in the visitor industry in my family, but trying to make sure that it's welcoming our visitors, but at the same time letting me know this is how you're going to visit our island, this is how you're going to travel.

This is what kind of options you have.

Only because to keep that balance, because it's about taking care of our families and in a lot of our families are part of the visitor industry.

So really connecting that and then welcoming our visitors.

But at the same time, however they traverse our island, we got to be better managing that as well, because that's the balance that needs to happen.

I think the question from Lynn was, you know, is there another industry that could start?

If not, you're not going to replace tourism.

Got that?

Okay.

But other things that other things you see that you want to encourage.

No, I think agriculture and farming and bringing back our land part, you know, we did I created a, a cultural park, agricultural park, you know, where you can come and visit doing different types of settings like that.

Agriculture is a big part.

I mean, that's to welcome our business.

But at the same time, the local produce, local food, local products, all of that is a big part of connecting that side of it and bringing Kaua'i to the forefront.

Well, I agree, appreciate you saying that tourism is here to stay because that is the reality and we rely a lot on it.

But but like you said, you know, I think the lowest hanging fruit as far as a another industries AG, I mean no doubt about it, we got the land, we got, you know, questionable whether we got water, we have water, we just don't have infrastructure.

But we do have we have an opportunity to really promote the egg industry on Kauaʻi.

I'm really, really closely watching Maui.

They created their own Department of AG because it's difficult sometimes working with the state Department of Agriculture.

So I'm following how they're doing it.

It would require a charter amendment, but I believe that Kauaʻi is ready to have its own county department of AG, where we can directly communicate with the state and the federal government.

As far as getting resources here to to promote AG, the other industry that I think, you know, is film.

And I'm not talking about Hollywood films, but I'm talking about.

Short films.

And we got an amazing group of talented kids in our in our community that do extremely well with video and and production and editing.

And I really want to expand that.

And I want to be the the short film capital of the state.

Okay.

I one other so the, the other driver on Oʻahu of diversification is construction, right.

And Kauaʻi has never been seen as a big pro-development island.

But I was talking to Jill Tokuda the other day and she mentioned that housing is still an issue.

Affordable housing is still an issue.

So let me ask, you know, but what about affordable housing?

Do you have a on Kauaʻi?

Well, having actually worked in building housing on Kauaʻi, in principle, you know, it's all workforce housing and then doing a kūpuna housing in Līhuʻe and then, you know, so having that experience on the table already.

But at the same time of obviously there's a need, I at the point where I also want to look at gap housing, because a lot of our young families can't come home.

They have to move away.

So how do we find that balance?

We have the different varieties of housing, but the gap housing is the kind of meet the low going to be the high.

It's just that area.

So that would mean looking at maybe more county lands or purchasing land and then building in that level for now, or is trying to because I think that's an important part to help our families should they choose to stay home.

And that's the area for me.

What about you?

Kauaʻi does a great job with affordable, low income housing.

I should say 60%.

Am I in below?

We do a great job.

And, I got to tell you, we have a lot of units coming up.

The that that workforce housing.

As Bernard say, the gap.

Housing is where we are.

I call it the missing middle because those are the workers.

Those are the like my kids.

That's why they're living in Texas and Oregon.

The challenge there often is attracting the capital, right, that people were willing to invest when they they they can make a lot more money building a really fancy house, you know, for a rich person or a tourism.

But but to build affordable housing, you're not going to make that much money.

So it's hard to get people to come in and invest and build it.

Well, I believe that there are contractors on our island right now that are willing to solve this problem.

They live on Kauaʻi, they're from Kauaʻi.

They got kids on Kauaʻi.

We need to have land that we don't have land we don't own land.

We need to we need to purchase land.

We have major landowners that are liquidating that.

We need to.

There's a fair amount of foul land there, right?

But it's not right.

I know, but we need to, you know, we need to be a very loud piece, a mouthpiece at the state to give us some of the state lands or go out and purchase.

Now, two years ago, we increased the property taxes on hotel, resort and TVR significantly, which generates about 13 to $14 million a year that is earmarked for that specific purpose for buying land, buying it land or creating infrastructure.

So as a mayor, we're spending that money, we're buying the land.

Now we can go out and get the nonprofit or for profit developers.

If you take out the land costs and you you do some creative managing of those resources, like leasing the land in versus selling the land, you number one, you keep that properties in perpetual affordability for the workforce, and you get our local people to move in.

Yeah.

So okay.

No, again, I just want to make clear that it's about we got to purchase, you know, county lands that we got to get to secure.

Does building a lot of housing and construction.

I mean, part of the beauty of Kauaʻi is open spaces.

Are you concerned about losing open space if you do something like that?

No, I mean not.

Housing is a big part.

So there's it's how you do it.

We're seeing that change.

Yeah.

We want to.

Yeah.

And I want to make sure that I like I said, our families in the shoes to stay home or they want to come home.

They can but we don't have that.

So we I believe it's where you do it, how you do it, what resources we have.

But that gap housing part is very important.

And that's something I really want to look into is a P, because my experience again has been in the other, which is okay, but that gap housing is a critical one.

This feels like a little bit of a sort of a seminar about talking about Kauaʻi's issues between three people, or two people that agree with each other and awful lot, but wondering, how would you guys differentiate yourselves from each other and your approach to issues when they come up?

I mean, I think that in a prior meeting, you guys talked about one being more collaborative, one being more direct.

I'll start with you.

So how do you think you differ from your colleague over here in in approaching problems?

I think in that last analysis that was done that analysts was referring to me as being the direct and he was the collaborative.

And I, I obviously support being collaborative.

I, I support with getting input, I support reaching out to the communities and getting their input.

But, you know, as I stated in one of those previous forums, is that I've been doing this for 18 years and we have been talking about these issues for 18 years through several mayoral administrations.

Back to Bryan Baptist.

And.

My style is we need to get things done and, well, what I can appreciate and respect the the efforts to collaborate.

It's at some point the leader must make a decision.

And I think that is what kind of separates me from from Bernard and for me, to me, if it's bringing people together, collaboration, but making the decision because it's about the voice of the people, that is important for me to be inclusive, but at the same time get a certain point where make the decision and sometimes they might not agree, but at least they have the opportunity to come to the table and discuss and be heard.

To me, that's important, especially as a community leader, as a government, as a mayor, that you try and be inclusive, but knowing that you got to make the decision when that time is needed and make it, and I'm willing to do that, but at the same time, give everybody opportunity to, you know, to chime in and see a few what they need, how they feel and move forward.

That's my style.

And also, you know, I think Bernard has has amazing amount of experience within the county.

He's his whole entire adult life.

And while I have 18 years on a county council, I still have a much more diverse experience in different sectors like law enforcement and the military and the visitor industry.

For 13 years, as a full time night auditor, I think that vast experience just give me a different outlook on how to do things and more about, you know, working in the private sector.

You you just see how it's done differently and how deadlines matter.

And I think that's that's kind of the difference.

And I want to add to that, that I also worked in a private sector.

I worked for al O'Hare lines for ten years, you know, two jobs when I first came home and my wife had to stay with their kids.

So I had that experience.

And then I work in a visitor industry at the at the Sheraton Coconut Beach as the MC for lūʻau show.

So I had that kind of understanding to in the private sector, along with my wealth of experience in the county.

And that's what I bring to the table as well.

So so I'm going to go back to just a couple of questions here.

The biggest barrier to building homes is that residents cannot get a building permit if they have a cesspool.

We talk about the cesspools, but, I was thinking, if how effective is your building permit system by this fire?

Buildings was okay.

Oh, we're building was okay.

Buildings was very the damage was very limited.

Some from the sprinklers that went off.

But for the most part, buildings is fine.

And they're working on permits.

File.

Okay.

This is a question about health care.

A lot of changes coming from Medicaid.

Some are already happening.

Is there anything the county could do to help those facing major adjustments?

And this is often not seen as a county issue, Medicare and Medicaid and so on.

But how is the health care infrastructure on your island?

Are you guys satisfied with it, or is there something that more that needs to be done?

You know, one of the one of the the sacrifices you you make when you move to a rural community is health care.

Now, I don't have any complaints with my doctor and my visits to the hospital and the clinic, but understanding we do have some limitations.

There's no urologist on Kauaʻi, there's no oncologist on Kauaʻi.

So a lot of our our patients need to need to come here to Oʻahu.

So in that respect, yeah, I think there's some, some limitations.

But as far as I'm very satisfied with the medical services on Kauaʻi.

And for me, my wife was a registered nurse for 32 years.

So she was part of the whole system.

Right.

And so I too am very, you know, supportive and we're okay with it if we need to travel to Oʻahu for certain health care issues and fine.

But as much as possible, whatever we can do back home is very important and we totally supportive.

So I understand that well, this is a question that came up earlier in the show, and I didn't go to it because traffic is such a unique situation from Island Island.

I'm trying to make sure that people who are another island will will listen to a question.

I'm interested in that.

But whenever people go to Kauaʻi, man, the traffic is not too good a lot of times.

So there you go.

Yeah.

So let me start with you.

What is going on with traffic on your island and what can you do about it?

This specific question.

Traffic, traffic.

That's a big issue.

This is a big issue for you guys.

This is why why has Rice Street gone back and forth between 2 and 4 lanes making traffic issues for everyone, especially government workers.

Who is responsible?

Anonymous.

Maybe a government worker, but.

Obviously we only have one main highway right?

Coming in the morning and stuff.

So the state Highways Division has their way of managing it and putting up cones and all of that.

Okay.

But how do we remember that that possibility, there's bypass opportunities that maybe we can look at the old plantation roads?

I know we only talked about it for emergencies, but I just kind of going outside the box.

I know we can look at other options to make sure that there is opportunities for traffic to flow more smoothly.

I remember when, after Iniki, yeah, we were trapped in Poʻipū and we got out on a a known cane road bypass, and there was a lot of cars.

That was everybody who was driving along this road.

And it was decent, you know.

So you have a lot of roads like that.

Well, that's why, you know, my grandpa, folks, everybody worked in old plantation days.

So that's how the hulking trucks came on Makai and then went mauka.

So there's still that footprint there.

It's how do we relook at it and what kind resources we can bring back to address it and open it up.

And we have a bypass road right behind the prison, right behind there for now.

But my point is, like you just said, that's what we got to start looking at.

And I know it's going to be costly and stuff, but to me that that would be a big plus for us, even for emergency purposes as well.

We talked about that earlier.

To pay for that kind of work though.

Would you need to raise your taxes?

I think it's going to be a multitude of everything from federal, state, county, you know, hopefully not the people part, but really because of we have an island setting.

It's a special setting.

You got to watch, you know, you want to keep that same charming character, but at the same time be able to, you know, get to island safely.

You know, I have been a advocate of opening up those cane roads for a long time.

I was there when Mayor Baptiste opened up the the one that goes behind the prison.

We don't use it.

That is an administrative call.

When we get a traffic accident on that road, we should be using that road.

And from over 20 years ago when we did that one, till today we have not duplicated that once.

True several administrations, we just have not done it.

And I think cost is a deterrent.

But if you look at it as purely a convenience remedy, a convenience, it's very hard to go up to to the feds and get money.

But for me, it's not about convenience.

Yes, it's inconvenient to be stuck in that traffic, but when you get a natural disaster, when you get it is and that's how the administration has to present it to the feds and to the state.

This is no longer a matter of convenience.

This is a matter of public health and safety.

We cannot get our people out of dangerous areas with the existing network of roads.

So that is the only other option that the county can do.

We will never see a new highway in our lifetime because just how long it takes.

But the question specifically talked about Rice Street and Rice Street was it was a four lane road.

It became a two lane road.

And again it was the Tiger.

Grant was the mayor.

I was the only councilmember that voted against it.

Remember?

Yes I remember, yeah, he came in.

But let me let me just tell you why I voted against it is because prior to the vote, I, I talked to all the business people that were in Rice Street and in the town core, and that grant was a development grant.

It wasn't a traffic grant.

And the whole idea was, you know, make it more walkable and bike, and then more people would remember the bike part.

Yeah.

But the businesses said, you guys are taking away parking spaces.

You guys are going to hurt our business and it's not going to help.

That's why I voted against it.

And if you fast forward to today, I joke about this all the time.

I tell Bernard I told you so because now all of the businesses left because your customers got nowhere to park.

Okay, we've got about.

I think we can bring it back, bring the businesses back in a way that's going to be positive.

And I feel that there was a whole effort there that had to be followed through.

Wasn't just the way the business.

I just following up and whatever we can do to do both have it.

So we've got about a minute left.

What time went fast?

So each of you is it?

Yeah.

Well, two Portuguese get together.

What happened?

I shouldn't have said.

Oh, you just said that I did.

So you get you get about 30s.

To wrap up, you got the first question from the Junkin poll about 30s.

What's your pitch for 30s about why Bernard should be mayor again?

Well, first of all, I'm ready.

I have I bring a wealth of understanding and experience to the table and I accessible, available and authentic.

Real.

I'm bold and brave, and I believe in what we've got to do make sure that we move forward.

I'm collaborative, cooperative and communication is my big part that side determine, decide and deliver.

Because why?

Together we can and together we will.

Okay, 30s, you know, I've been doing this a long time, and as I've stated over and over and over, I believe I had reached the ceiling of my ability as a council chair, even as the council chair, to get to implement the what I believe needs to be done, the changes that need to be made, the decisions and the systemic changes that need to be made can only be done by the mayor.

And that's why I'm running.

You guys are a good job at hitting 30s, I gotta say, and we are pretty much out of time.

But I want to thank both of you gentlemen and and I think that the voters will have a fun choice.

It's probably going to be very close, do you think?

Yes.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay.

So we're going to wrap up down.

Mahalo to you for joining us tonight.

And we thank our guests.

The candidates for Kaua'i County Mayor Mel and Bernard Carvalho.

Next week on insights.

Our general election coverage continues with two Oʻahu races in the state House.

We'll hear from the candidates running for the district 26 and 32 seats.

Please join us then.

I'm Daryl Huff for insights on PBS Hawai'i.

Aloha.

Insights on PBS Hawai'i is by Carlsmith Ball, Aloha State Daily, and the University of Hawai'i Cancer Center.