A HUGE SPIKE IN PROPERTY TAXES ON OAHU IS DRAWING OUTRAGE FROM HOMEOWNERS.

PROPERTY VALUES ARE SHOOTING UP AND WHILE THAT’S GOOD NEWS IF YOU’RE LOOKING TO SELL, IT’S MAKING HOLDING ON TO A HOME MUCH MORE EXPENSIVE.

SO WHAT CAN BE DONE TO HELP RESIDENTS STRUGGLING TO DEAL WITH THE STICKER SHOCK?

AND SHOULD THERE BE AN OVERHAUL IN OAHU’S PROPERTY TAX SYSTEM?

TONIGHT’S LIVE BROADCAST AND LIVE STREAM OF INSIGHTS ON PBS HAWAII START NOW.

ALOHA AND WELCOME TO INSIGHTS ON PBS HAWAII.

I'M DARYL HUFF.

MANY OAHU HOMEOWNERS WERE SHOCKED AS THEIR PROPERTY ASSESSMENTS CAME BACK THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS HIGHER THAN THE YEAR BEFORE.

NOW SOME ARE CALLING FOR A CHANGE IN TAX RATES TO PREVENT HAWAII’S RISING PROPERTY VALUES AND TAXES FROM PRICING OUT LONG‑TIME HOMEOWNERS AND RENTERS WHEN THE TAXES ARE PASSED ON.

WE LOOK FORWARD TO YOUR PARTICIPATION IN TONIGHT'S SHOW.

YOU CAN EMAIL OR CALL IN YOUR QUESTIONS AND YOU’LL FIND A LIVE STREAM OF THIS PROGRAM AT PBSHAWAII.ORG AND THE PBS HAWAII FACEBOOK PAGE.

NOW, TO OUR GUESTS.

HONOLULU COUNCILMEMBER CALVIN SAY REPRESENTS PALOLO VALLEY, ST. LOUIS HEIGHTS, MANOA, MOILIILI, MCCULLY, ALA MOANA, MAKIKI, AND PORTIONS OF KAKAAKO.

BEFORE HIS ELECTION TO THE DIDN'T REALIZE THAT BIG A DISTRICT.

CITY COUNCIL, HE WAS A LONG‑TIME MEMBER OF THE STATE HOUSE.

ANDY KAWANO HAS BEEN THE DIRECTOR OF BUDGET AND FISCAL SERVICES FOR THE CITY AND COUNTY OF HONOLULU SINCE 2021.

BEFORE JOINING THE CITY, HE SPENT 25 YEARS AT FOODLAND SUPER MARKET AND ITS AFFILIATES IN A NUMBER OF FINANCIAL AND OPERATING ROLES INCLUDING CHIEF FINANCIAL OFFICER.

RACQUEL ACHIU IS A LIFE‑LONG OAHU NORTH SHORE RESIDENT AND CURRENTLY SERVES AS VICE CHAIR OF THE NORTH SHORE NEIGHBORHOOD BOARD.

SHE’S BEEN AN ACTIVE VOLUNTEER AND ADVOCATE FOR HER COMMUNITY FOR MORE THAN 25 YEARS.

KELII AKINA IS THE PRESIDENT AND CEO OF THE GRASSROOT INSTITUTE OF HAWAII.

IT’S A NONPROFIT POLICY RESEARCH ORGANIZATION THAT ADVOCATES FOR INDIVIDUAL LIBERTY, ECONOMIC FREEDOM AND ACCOUNTABLE GOVERNMENT.

TALK ABOUT HOW DID THESE ASSESSMENTS COME DOWN FOR YOU AND FOR YOUR NEIGHBORS WHEN YOU STARTED TALKING ABOUT WHAT IT MEANS FOR THE COST OF LIVING HAWAII.

>> WELL, NOT JUST PAST YEAR.

EVEN RECENT INCREASES.

ALWAYS A CONVERSATION THROUGHOUT THE NORTH SHORE.

I BELIEVE NORTH SHORE IS THE HIGHEST INCREASE IN THE ENTIRE ISLAND.

WITH 20% INCREASE.

AND WE EXTEND ON DO I BELIEVE WHAT IS CONSIDERED ZONE 6.

WHICH IS KAHUKU, TO KAAAWA.

ALSO A HIGH NOT AS HIGH AS NORTH SHORE CONSIDERED.

THEN WE EXPAND ON TO WHAT IS CONSIDERED DISTRICT KO'OLAUPOKO AREA.

HIGH FOR THEM.

IT IS SHOCK WAVE FOR MOST PEOPLE.

BUT MOSTLY.

>> WOULD SAY FOR OUR KUPUNA, AND FOR OUR RETIREES.

WHO HAVE PLANNED THEIR LIFE AS ACCORDINGLY TO BE ABLE TO ENJOY THEIR RETIREMENT AND NOW TO HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT A BURDEN OF SIGNIFICANT INCREASE.

IT'S CHALLENGING TO BE ABLE TO HELP NAVIGATE MANY OF THEM DON'T REALLY UNDERSTAND HOW IT WORKS, HOW VALUATIONS ARE MADE, OR HOW THOUGH CAN TRY TO ADVOCATE FOR THEMSELVES ON IT.

NOT REAL FAMILIAR WITH HOW TO APPLY FOR APPEALS.

OR LOW TAX INCOME CREDIT.

A LOT OF EDUCATION MISSING IN THAT AREA.

>>Daryl: WHAT EXPLAINS THIS HUGE INCREASE?

DIDN'T SEEM LIKE A LOT HAPPENED IN ONE YEAR.

WERE YOU FOLKS KIND OF SURPRISED HOW HIGH APPRAISAL AS CAME IN.

>> IT'S BEEN A COUPLE YEARS.

COMING OUT OF COVID, I THINK THERE WAS JUST A LOT OF PENT‑UP DEMAND TO ACQUIRE HOMES.

AND IF I RECALL RIGHT IN CALENDAR 2021, TOTAL HOME SALES AMOUNTED TO OVER $12 BILLION CLOSER TO $12.5 BILLION.

>> AND OUR REAL PROPERTY ASSESSMENT TEAM SAID THAT IN PRIOR YEARS, THE HIGHEST IT WOULD GO TO WOULD BE MAYBE $10 BILLION.

SO JUST A LOT OF DEMAND.

PEOPLE ESSENTIALLY PUTTING CASH DOWN TO BUY HOMES.

AND THAT DROVE PRICES UP AS WE GOT OUT OF THE PANDEMIC.

>> SO WE'VE HAD ACTUALLY TWO YEARS OF LARGER ASSESSMENT INCREASES.

I THINK FOR FISCAL 2022, ASSESSMENTS WERE UP ABOUT 9.5%.

AND THIS PAST YEAR, OVERALL, ABOUT 13%.

>>Daryl: THESE VALUATIONS, IS IT FAIR THAT ME, WHO OWNS A HOUSE A LOT, MY PROPERTY TAXES HAVE TO GO UP BECAUSE SOMEBODY ELSE SOLD THEIR HOUSE?

>> WHETHER IT'S FAIR OR NOT, IT'S NOT A GOOD DEAL.

WE SAW OVERALL, ASSESSMENTS GO UP BY ABOUT 12.4%.

AND RESIDENTIAL, THAT'S ABOUT 9‑POINT SOMETHING.

AND IN RESIDENTIAL A, HIGH AS 39.9%.

PLUS COMMERCIAL WENT UP AS WELL.

RAQUEL POINTED OUT, ON A FIXED INCOME, VALUE OF YOUR HOUSE GOING UP DOESN'T MEAN YOU ARE RICHER.

IT MEANS YOU ARE POOR.

THIS IS THE PROBLEM WE'RE FACING.

I KNOW TONIGHT, WE'RE GOING TO TALK A LOT ABOUT THE SPECIFIC PROBLEM OF PROPERTY TAXES.

BUT I DON'T WANT TO GET TOO FAR AWAY FROM THE BIG PICTURE.

OUR PEOPLE IN HAWAII ARE PAYING TOO MUCH ALREADY AS IT IS.

COMPARED TO OTHER STATES, WE'RE THE SECOND HIGHEST IN TERMS OF TAX BURDEN THAT IS WHAT WE PAY IN TERMS OF LOCAL TAXES AND STATE TAXES.

>>Daryl: WHO ALSO EXPERIENCE OF BEING OF A STATE SIDE.

YOU'RE BASICALLY RESPONSIBLE FOR ALL OF THESE TAXES THAT HE'S COMPLAINING ABOUT.

DO YOU THINK THAT THE AVERAGE PERSON IS PAYING A RIDICULOUS AMOUNT OF TAXES OR DO YOU THINK IT'S FAIRLY REASONABLE WHAT IS BEING EXPECTED?

>> IT ALL DEPENDS ON HOW THE GENERAL PUBLIC LOOKS AT IT.

DEPENDS SERVICE GOVERNMENT PROVIDES.

>> STATE LEVEL YES.

DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION, BIG TICKET ITEM.

PUBLIC SAFETY, PRISON SYSTEM.

THEN YOU HAVE YOUR STATE DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION.

HIGHWAYS.

AIRPORTS, HARBORS.

ET CETERA.

GOES ON AND ON.

I WAS SHOCKED TWO YEARS AGO WHEN I BECAME CHAIR OF THE BUDGET COMMITTEE THAT FOUND OUT ONLY REVENUE SOURCE REALLY HAD WAS REAL PROPERTY TAX.

AND IT WAS A SHOCK TO ME, BUT UNDERSTANDING THE BUDGET PROCESS, AND STATE AND COUNTY LEVEL, I FELT THAT I HAD AN OBLIGATION SEEING THROUGH WHAT I THINK GENERAL PUBLIC FORGETS ALSO TODAY, IS THE ISSUE OF COLLECTIVE BARGAINING.

FOUR YEARS, STATE AND COUNTY EMPLOYEES DID NOT GET A PAY RAISE.

>> AND ALL I'M SAYING IS THAT WHEN THIS PARTICULAR ASSESSMENT CAME IN, A PORTION WOULD HAVE TO BE USED FOR PAY RAISES.

>>Daryl: CAN YOU GIVE ME A THREE OR FOUR SENTENCE EXPLANATION, GIVE THE GENERAL PUBLIC ABOUT HOW THIS WORKS?

WHAT IS THE CONNECTION BETWEEN ASSESSMENT AND THE TAX BILL AND NUMBER 2, IF WE COULD DO BACK OF THE ENVELOPE ESTIMATE OF, LET'S SAY, SOMEONE GOT A $750,000 HOUSE, AND PROPERTY TAXES ASSESSMENT WENT UP 20%, HOW MUCH MONEY IS THAT OUT OF SOMEBODY'S POCKET?

MAYBE I'M ASKING YOU DO MATH LIVE ON TELEVISION.

>> USE ROUNDER NUMBERS.

>>Daryl: SENSE OF HOW MANY MONEY.

>> USE A MILLION DOLLARS.

ROUND.

>>Daryl: OKAY.

I STARTED WITH MILLION DOLLARS HOUSE, I'M OWNER OCCUPIED, NOT IN THE RESIDENTIAL A CATEGORY, TAKE THAT OFF THE TABLE.

WENT UP 20%.

WHAT IS THAT ADD UP TO?

>> A MILLION DOLLARS, PROPERTY TAX RATE IS $3.50 PER THOUSAND.

SO YOU'LL BE PAYING ABOUT $3,500.

ON A MILLION DOLLARS.

>> ON A MILLION DOLLARS.

>>Daryl: GOES UP 20%,.

>> THAT'S $200,000 INCREASE.

FOR EACH $100,000, YOU'RE PAYING $35.

>>Daryl: SO IT'S $200,000.

35.

SEVENTY DOLLARS MORE A YEAR.

>> RIGHT.

>>Daryl: 20% INCREASE ON A MILLION DOLLARS HOUSE.

>> CORRECTION $350.

>>Daryl: $700 MORE.

>>Daryl: A MILLION DOLLARS HOUSE.

>> GOES UP 20%.

YOUR TAXES GONE UP $700 FROM $3,500.

>> CORRECT.

>>Daryl: FROM $3,500 TO 42 MISUNDERSTAND.

IS THAT REALLY SOMETHING GOING TO CHASE SOMEBODY OUT OF THEIR HOUSE?

$4,200.

>> SURE POTENTIAL THERE.

MY MOM ALONE NOW, FIXED INCOME RETIRED.

THAT'S A HARD, YOU KNOW, I THINK INCREASE, $3,500 NOT AN EASY THING.

WAYS CAN BE NAVAGATED MANAGE IT IN A SENSE WHERE IN GENERALLY, THE WAY I SEE IT IS IF THERE'S SOMETHING TO BE DONE, SOMETHING THAT WE CAN ACTIVELY DO, I BELIEVE THAT PEOPLE SUCH AS MY MOM WITH SITUATIONS SUCH AS THOSE NUMBERS, KUPUNA AND RETIREES HAVE TO BE CONSIDERED FIRST.

SHE'S BEEN IN HER HOME FOR OVER 50 YEARS.

SHE HAS EARNED EQUITY.

SHE'S DONE NOTHING TO HER HOME TO MAKE IT INTO THIS VISION ON PAPER.

OF A ZILLION DOLLAR HOME.

SHOULD SHE SUFFER WHAT HAS HAPPENED DOWN THE STREET?

>>Daryl: THIS IS CALL FROM GIG IN MAKAKILO.

WHY CAN'T CAN WE LIMIT AMOUNT OF PEOPLE COMING IN FROM THE MAINLAND WHICH PRICES US OUT OF REAL ESTATE?

IS INDEED THE OUT OF STATE INVESTMENT IN FOR THE MOST PART, RENTAL OR COMMERCIAL PROPERTY, EVEN IF BUYING IT, NOT HERE A LOT OF THE FOREIGN BUYERS, HOW MUCH IS THAT INFLUENCING THE AMOUNT THAT AVERAGES HOMEOWNERS GOING TO PAY?

>> ACTUALLY, PURCHASES OF HOMES BY FOREIGN OR MAINLAND BUYERS IS MUCH SMALLER THAN PEOPLE THINK IT IS.

HAS MUCH SMALLER IMPACT.

>>Daryl: SEEN YOUR GUYS ANALYSIS.

>> RIGHT.

THIS IS A FACTOR.

>> IT IS A FACTOR.

REALITY IS EVEN WITHOUT OUTSIDE PURCHASES, WE ALREADY HAVE HUGE DEMAND.

>> WE'RE 15,800 UNITS SHORT IN HONOLULU COUNTY ALONE.

>> RESEARCH SHOWS CLEARLY THAT MAINLAND BUYERS ACTUALLY VERY SMALL FACTOR IN THE PRICE AND SCARCITY OF HOUSES HERE.

AND I THINK WHAT IS MORE IMPORTANT IS TO LOOK AT THE REAL CAUSES.

REAL CAUSE OF SCARCITY AND RISING PRICE OF HOUSING IS ALL REGULATION, STATE AND COUNTY LEVEL THAT DEVELOPERS AND INDIVIDUALS HOME BUILDERS HAVE GO THROUGH IN ORDER TO RENOVATE OR IN ORDER TO BUILD.

REGULATED STATES IN THE ENTIRE NATION.

>>Daryl: I NEED TO STOP FOR A SECOND.

>> I RESPECT YOU A LOT.

I DON'T WANT YOU HIJACKING THIS SHOW OFF TO OVERALL COST MUCH LIVING THING THAT IS A PROBLEM.

THIS IS A VERY SPECIFIC DETAILED PROBLEM.

>> LOOKING FORWARD TO THE CONVERSATION.

>>Daryl: FOR EXAMPLE, ANOTHER QUESTION COMING IN.

>> WHO ACTUALLY BUYS A HOMES ANOTHER MOSTLY LOCALS MAINLAND INVESTORS.

>> HOW BIG A FACTOR OUTSIDE INVESTMENT PUSHING UP PRICES IN YOUR OPINION?

>> FROM A PERCEPTION STANDPOINT, IT IS A FACTOR.

BECAUSE PEOPLE TALK ABOUT THAT.

NONRESIDENCE BUYING HOMES HIGH PRICE.

>> PERCEPTION IS NOT GOOD.

BUT TO SAY THAT MAINLAND CAUSING IT, I THINK IS NOT TOTALLY CORRECT.

IT'S THE FACT THAT REAL ESTATE IS SCARCE.

WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH ININVENTORY HOMES ON OAHU.

>> QUESTION OF SUPPLY AND DEMAND.

INVESTORS OF TODAY ARE NOT JUST INTERNATIONAL INVESTORS AND LOCAL.

WHO SPECULATE ALSO.

IF THEY HAVE THE CASH AVAILABLE, THEY WILL BUY AND SEE THAT THEY'LL SIT ON IT FOR ONE OR 2 YEARS, SELL IT.

>> FOR YEARS, RECORD LOW INTEREST RATES MORE MORTGAGES, THAT DRIVES DEMAND FOR BUYING HOME AS WELL.

SO YES, ELDERLY, KUPUNA, THAT HAVE HOMES, THAT ARE GOING UP, IT IS AN ISSUE.

AT THE SAME TIME, FOR PEOPLE THAT ARE GETTING THEIR FEET ON THE GROUND, IN THE WORKFORCE, THEY HAVE OPPORTUNITIES TO BUILD EQUITY AS WELL.

IN THEIR HOMES.

AND WE'RE ALSO LOOKING AT TAX CREDITS BASED ON INCOME LEVELS.

LOOK AT INCREASING INCOME LEVELS SUCH THAT MORE PEOPLE CAN QUALIFY FOR THE TAX CREDIT LOW INCOME TAX CREDIT TO HELP.

>>Daryl: HOW DOES THIS OUTSIDE INVESTMENT, YOU MENTIONED NORTH SHORE, OUTSIDER, INSIDER WHEREVER, PEOPLE BUYING UP PROPERTY.

HOW IS IT IF A MICROCOME, HOW DOES IT AFFECT WHAT YOU OBSERVED IN YOUR COMMUNITY?

>> WE'RE OVERRUN BY OUT STATE PURCHASES, OUTSIDE MONEY.

>> FOREIGN INVESTMENT.

PEOPLE CHOOSING TO RELOCATE, DEVELOPERS OUTSIDE LOOKING TO INVEST IN THE AREA AND TURN IT IN SOMETHING THAT WE CAN'T AFFORD.

SO I'M GOING TO RESPECTFULLY DISAGREE WITH KEALI'I, BUT THE NORTH SHORE I'M GOING TO GO BACK 30 YEARS.

BECAUSE THAT'S THE LAST TIME I REMEMBER IT BEING REASONABLE OR MANAGEABLE.

WHEN I GOT OUT OF HIGH SCHOOL.

AFTER THAT EXPLODED WITH AN INFLUX OF NEW RESIDENTS, OUTSIDE MONEY, DEVELOPERS, COMING IN.

>>Daryl: IT SHOULD BE SAID THAT I THINK YOU WOULD EVEN AGREE THAT INDIVIDUAL POCKETS, CERTAIN AREAS GOING TO BE INFLUENCED WAY MORE THAN, SAY, MILILANI OR WHERE I LIVE IN MAKAKILO.

BY THAT SORT OF FACTOR.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

I WOULD AGREE WITH RAQUEL.

THAT THERE ARE CERTAIN POCKETS WHERE NOT ONLY THE PRACTICE OF OUTSIDE BUYING IS HIGH, BUT THE PERCEPTION AS WELL.

OVERALL DATA SHOWS THAT ACROSS THE STATE, EVEN IF WE DIDN'T HAVE OUTSIDE PURCHASES, WE HAVE A HUGE PROBLEM THAT IS REALLY GENERATED BY OUR OWN DEMAND.

>> WE NEED TO SOLVE THAT FIRST.

>>Daryl: EXACTLY.

>> MAJOR CAUSE.

>>Daryl: JUST TO GET BACK.

PEOPLE UNDERSTAND HOW IT WORKS SPECIFICALLY WITH OUR PROPERTY TAX SYSTEM.

IN A PLACE LIKE RAQUEL'S COMMUNITY, THOSE PURCHASES AROUND HER MOM'S HOUSE, WOULD HAVE A FAIRLY DIRECT IMPACT ON HER PROPERTY TAX ASSESSMENT.

>> CORRECT.

>>Daryl: LOOKING AT COMPARABLE SALES, IN THE NEIGHBORHOODS.

>> LOOK WITHIN A RADIUS.

START WITHIN A CERTAIN SCOPE AND KEEP EXPANDING IT UNTIL THEY HAVE ENOUGH COMP SALES.

>> REAL ESTATE APPRAISERS MAKE ADJUSTMENTS SO, THAT THOSE COMP SALES ARE COMPARABLE TO THE HOME SUBJECT HOME BEING VALUED.

AND ONCE THEY DO THAT, GO THROUGH A COUPLE CALCULATIONS TO COME UP WITH A AVERAGE IF YOU WILL, APPRAISED VALUE.

THROW OUT HIGH AND LOW VALUES.

AND COME UP WITH A NUMBER.

>>Daryl: SO WE'RE STARTING TO GET A LOT OF QUESTIONS WHAT TO DO ABOUT IT.

COUPLE OF INTERESTING QUESTIONS, FIRST, FOR YOU, THIS PHENOMENA OF VERY SMALL POCKETS OF REALLY HIGH INCREASES, AND OTHER PLACES WHERE THERE'S NOT MUCH INCREASE, DOESN'T SEAM FAIR.

I MEAN, TAX EQUITY, DOESN'T REALLY SEEM FAIR TO HAVE, I'M NOT SAYING THE SYSTEM IS WRONG, BUT WHEN YOU'VE GOT NEIGHBORHOOD BY NEIGHBORHOOD DRAMATIC DIFFERENCES HOW MUCH THEIR TAX BILLS ARE GOING UP, IS THAT SOMETHING THAT POLICY LEVEL, NEEDS ADDRESSING?

>> POLICY LEVEL.

YES.

YOU'RE CORRECT.

WHEN I LOOK AT THE WEST SIDE, OR REAL ESTATE SALES LOWER COMPARED TO EAST HONOLULU?

PRIMARY URBAN CENTER, BECAUSE THAT'S WHERE ALL THE SERVICES BEING PROVIDED.

THAT'S WHERE YOU HAVE THE MAJOR MEGA MALLS, ET CETERA.

>> I WOULD LIKE TO SEE, WE DID TRY TO REQUEST THE OAHU REAL PROPERTY TAX ADVISORY COMMISSION TO LOOK INTO THAT.

THEY DID MAKE SOME RECOMMENDATIONS.

OVERALL SCOPE OF THINGS IS SCARCITY OF SUPPLY AND DEMAND THAT IS OUT THERE.

I CAN'T CONTROL IF CALVIN SAY TODAY PROPERTY IN PALOLO IS 1 MILLION.

AND THERE'S A DEMAND THAT THERE IS FIVE OR SIX INDIVIDUALS THAT WANT TO BUY IT GOES UP TO 1.5.

>> GOING TO IMPACT MY NEIGHBORHOOD NO MATTER WHAT.

REASON WHY THE 1.5 WAS SELLING POINT, IS BECAUSE OF THE PROXIMITY OF WHERE PALOLO VALLEY IS COMPARED TO OTHER COMMUNITIES SUCH AS WAIANAE COAST, ET CETERA.

>>Daryl: LEILANI ESTATES TALK A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT WHAT DO ABOUT THE CURRENT SITUATION.

TWO QUESTIONS.

ONE FROM STEVEN NORTH SHORE.

ONE FROM GRAY.

WHY NOT MAKE IT TAX INCREASE EXEMPTION FOR KUPUNA AND FIXED INCOME OWNERS.

THE START GETTING INTO EXEMPTIONS ALL KINDS QUESTIONS.

>> ALMOST 20 SOMETHING DIFFERENT REAL PROPERTY TAX EXEMPTIONS ON THE BOOKS ALREADY.

AND I THINK WE TRIED TO ADDRESS THAT PAST 2 YEARS.

SAYING IF SOME OF THESE EXEMPTIONS COULD BE REPEALED.

WITH THE SAVINGS YOU GET FROM THAT REPEAL OF THE EXEMPTIONS, BE USED TO MAYBE SUPPORT KUPUNA.

JUST THE REALLOCATION.

>>Daryl: ACKNOWLEDGE OUR QUESTION.

NORTH SHORE STEVE, HOW CAN THEY RAISE HOME EXEMPTIONS FOR KUPUNA AND RETIREES WITH FIXED INCOMES?

HOW MUCH IS THAT IN THE CURRENT RESPONSE FROM THE CITY ADMINISTRATION?

BEEN CONSIDERED, AND I KNOW YOU FOLKS HAVE PROPOSED $300 ACROSS THE BOARD ONE TIME CREDIT.

>> >> WE DID THAT BECAUSE WE UNDERSTAND THAT PEOPLE ARE STRUGGLING.

WE ALSO UNDERSTAND THAT IN THE LAST 2 YEARS, FISCAL 22 AND FISCAL '23, LARGE INCREASES IN ASSESSMENTS THAT WE TALKED ABOUT.

SO THE ONE TIME CREDIT IS TO PUT OUT THERE TO REALLY HELP PEOPLE, THIS COMING YEAR STARTING JULY 1, 2023, GOING THROUGH JUNE 30, 2024.

>> SO THE $300 CREDIT EQUATES TO ABOUT $86,000 ADDITIONAL EXEMPTION FOR HOMEOWNERS.

IT'S GOING TO BE PROVIDED TO HOMEOWNERS AND.

>>Daryl: OWNER/OCCUPANTS.

>> OWNER/OCCUPANTS WITH HOMEOWNERS EXEMPTION.

152,000 HOMES.

>> GOING FORWARD, WHAT WE'RE GOING TO DO, TAKE A LOOK AT THE LOW INCOME TAX CREDIT FOR HOMEOWNERS, AND WE'RE ALSO GOING TO LOOK AT THE EXEMPTION AMOUNT.

SO CURRENTLY, THE EXEMPTION IS 100,000.

FOR HOMEOWNERS WITH HOMEOWNER EXEMPTION.

WHEN THOSE HOMEOWNERS REACH AGE 65, GOES UP TO $140,000.

>>Daryl: YOU'RE PROPOSING ANOTHER 80,000 EXEMPTION.

>> FOR ONE YEAR.

>>Daryl: ONE TIME.

YEAH.

>>Daryl: PERSON GETTING BACK TO THE MILLION DOLLARS HOUSE.

NOW, IF THEY LIVE IN THE HOUSE, IT'S 900,000 THAT GETS TAXED?

OVER 65 OR OVER, TAKE ANOTHER 40,000.

>> 40,000.

860,000.

>>Daryl: ONE TIME 380,000.

NOW TAKEN ABOUT 200,000 OFF THE VALUE OF THE HOUSE THAT THEY'RE PAYING ON ABOUT 8.

SO I GET THAT.

>> YEAH.

CREDIT OF $300 EQUATES TO IN ADDITIONAL ONE TIME EXEMPTION OF ABOUT $86,000.

>>Daryl: WHY DO IT THAT WAY INSTEAD OF JUST DECREASING THE RATE FOR REGULAR RESIDENTIAL?

>> BECAUSE WE DON'T KNOW WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN GOING FORWARD.

WE WANTED TO HIT IT ONE TIME AND DO IT QUICKLY.

AND AS I MENTIONED, WE'RE LOOKING AT THE EXEMPTION AND THE LOW INCOME TAX CREDIT GOING FORWARD.

>> SO FOR FISCAL YEAR '25 ON, TAKE A LOOK AT THAT.

HAVING A LOT OF DISCUSSION ON THAT.

>>Daryl: LET ME ASK YOU.

HOW DOES THAT $300 SIT WITH YOU FOLKS?

>> THINK IT'S A GOOD START.

I DON'T THINK IT'S ENOUGH.

IT'S A GOOD START.

BUT WHEN YOU BOIL DOWN TO THE LIKE MY MOM, MRS. ALBERT, PAPA RAY'S OF THIS WORLD THAT ARE JUST SITTING THERE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT IT IS BY THE TIME THAT YEAR IS UP, IT'S DONE.

THEN WHAT?

THEN WHAT DO WE DO.

>> HAVE TO FIGURE OUT A LOOK AT IT.

ALL THE WAY INFORMATION ON THE SYSTEM.

WE SHOULD BE CAPING KUPUNA AND MAKING SURE THEY DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT THAT ANY MORE.

WHERE DO WE MAKE THE UP THE DIFFERENCE?

NEW PEOPLE COMING IN AND PAYING OVER ASKING PRICE FOR THEIR HOMES AN NOW, INCREASING VALUATION.

I THINK A LOOK AT THE VALUATION AND HOW THOSE ARE COME UP WITH MATTERS.

>> TO THE PEOPLE THAT IT APPLIES TO.

>> SIMPLEST APPROACH AS FAR AS HOW I WOULD LOOK AT TRYING TO HELP THE KUPUNA, IF YOU WANT TO CAP IT, WE CAP IT.

WE INCREASE THE RATES ON THOSE OTHER CATEGORIES THAT CAN SURVIVE.

>>Daryl: PRETTY DRAMATIC IDEA.

>> FOR EVERYBODY OVER, YOU'RE SAYING KUPUNA, KUPUNA IS DIFFERENT FROM OWNER OCCUPANT.

OWNER/OCCUPANT AND KUPUNA WOULD BASICALLY HAVE THEIR TAXES CAPPED FOREVER?

>> FOREVER, TO THE POINT WHEREBY THERE IS A LEGISLATION ORDINANCE TO SAY, ONCE IT'S SOLD, CITY WILL GET MAYBE A LARGER PORTION OF THAT SALE.

OF THE DIFFERENCE.

WHAT I'M TRYING TO GET A IS THIS.

WOULD THE EXEMPTIONS THAT ARE IN PLACE, AND IF YOU WANT TO ADDRESS THE RATES, ON THESE PARTICULAR OTHER CLASSIFICATIONS, THAT RESOURCES THAT YOU DO GET CAN BE PLOWED BACK INTO HELPING KUPUNA.

>>Daryl: LET ME ASK YOU.

>> SOMETHING THAT'S NOT GOING TO BE A YEARLY THING, PERPETUITY.

>>Daryl: VERY POPULAR.

>> TALKING ABOUT SOLUTIONS WHAT ANDREW AND MAYOR HAVE COME UP WITH IS GOOD IDEA.

THREE HUNDRED DOLLARS REBATE.

IS A GOOD, BUT I AGREE WITH RAQUEL.

STARTING POINT AND GRASSROOTS INSTITUTE, CALCULATED THAT IT SHOULD BE AT LEAST 380 TO TAKE INTO ACCOUNT THE RECENT BUMP IN ASSESSMENTS.

IN ADDITION TO THAT,.

>>Daryl: HOLD ON.

380.

WHAT WE'RE PROPOSING.

>>Daryl: $380?

>> EXEMPTION AMOUNT?

>> NOT EXEMPTION.

EXCUSE ME.

I'M TALKING ABOUT THE REBATE.

>>Daryl: $380 PER PERSON.

>> SECONDLY, THE HOMEOWNERS EXEMPTION, THAT BILL 40 IS TALKING ABOUT, IS REALLY GOOD IDEA AS WELL, $100,000 RIGHT NOW AS YOU POINTED OUT, TO GO 110.

WE WOULD PROPOSE THAT GO UP TO 125 BECAUSE WE HAVE TO KEEP PACE WITH THE RISING REAL ESTATE MARKET.

THAT'S SOMETHING THAT VERY IMPORTANT ALONG WITH INFLATION AS WELL.

>>Daryl: LET ME ASK YOU.

WE'RE SPECIFICALLY TALKING ABOUT WHAT DO ABOUT THESE RECENT ASSESSMENTS.

YOU STATE THAT THE INCREASING IT TO 380 WOULD BE EQUITABLE.

WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THIS IDEA OF CAPPING KUPUNA PEOPLE OVER 65 ON THEIR TAXES?

>> I LIKE IT BECAUSE I'M CAUTIOUS.

I LIKE IDEA WE WANT TO HELP OUR OUR KUPUNA AND PARTICULAR GROUPS.

>> IF WE LOOK AT WHOLE POPULATION, THERE ARE SO MANY GROUPS BY WHICH WE CAN DIVIDE OUR SOCIETY.

THAT WE'LL FIND OURSELVES IN A VERY DIFFICULT POSITION OF SAYING WE'RE GOING TO HELP THIS GROUP AND THAT GROUP.

SO FORTH.

WHAT I THINK MORE MACRO APPROACH TO BRINGING ABOUT ECONOMIC REFORM IS MUCH MORE HELPFUL THAN ALL OF THE ENGINEERING WE HAVE TO DO.

>> >>Daryl: I AGREE WITH THAT.

>> I THINK IF WE SLICE AND DICE OUR HOMEOWNER OCCUPANTS TOO SMALL AMOUNT.

GET SUCH A COMPLICATED SYSTEM.

WE GOT TO LOOK AT THE BIG PICTURE AND KEEP IT SO IT'S MANAGEABLE AND I FEEL THAT WHAT WE HAVE WORKS, I THINK WE HAVE TO TWEAK WHAT WE HAVE CURRENTLY IN OUR CURRENT TAX PROGRAM.

IF WE ALL WORK TOGETHER, AND HAVE THE DISCUSSION, WE'LL START TO MOVE TO SOMETHING THAT WORKS BETTER GOING FORWARD.

>>Daryl: I WANT TO THROW OUT THE IDEA RENTERS ALSO.

MANY PEOPLE HAVE, LIVE IN A HOUSE THAT'S OWNED BY SOMEONE ELSE AND NOW THEY'RE RENTING IT.

AND THAT IS NOT OWNER OCCUPIED.

SO THEREFORE, TAXES ARE NOT PAYING EXEMPTION.

THEY COULD END UP FALLING INTO THE RESIDENTIAL A CATEGORY, PRETTY SOON.

>> RENTERS DON'T OWN THE HOME.

>>Daryl: OPTION BECOMING HOMEOWNERS.

MANY OF THE HOMEOWNERS ARE JUST THAT'S THEIR OTHER HOUSE.

WONDERING WHETHER RENTERS SHOULD BE FACTORS INTO THIS THING?

>> I THINK WE HAVE TO THINK OF RENTERS.

BECAUSE THEY WILL RECEIVE THE BRUNT OF ANY INCREASE IN PROPERTY TAXES.

BECAUSE OWNERS ARE GOING TO PASS THAT ON TO THEM.

AND SO THE IF FIRST LINE OF DEALING WITH FAIRNESS TO RENTERS IS TO MAKE SURE THAT WE HAVE FAIR TO OUR OWNERS AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE.

>>Daryl: YOU FEEL THAT WAY TOO?

>> I FEEL THAT WAY TOO.

THINK ABOUT IT, REAL PROPERTY TAX APPRAISAL TEAM IS NOT THAT BIG.

IF WE WERE TO PROVIDE SOME KIND OF TAX RELIEF, IF YOU WILL, TO RENTERS, HOW DO YOU GO ABOUT DOING THAT?

ALL OF THESE RENTERS ‑‑ >>Daryl: LEASES?

>> HAVE TO ACTUALLY PUT THE SAVING ON OWNER OF THE HOUSE.

>> >> EXACTLY.

>>Daryl: GETS COMPLICATED.

YOU'VE MENTIONED THAT WE HAVE LOTS OF EXEMPTIONS FOR DIFFERENT KIND OF PROPERTIES.

I DO HAVE TWO QUESTIONS ABOUT THAT.

MOSES FROM NANAKULI SAYING, HOMESTEAD LESSEE DOESN'T UNDERSTAND WHY THEY HAVE TO PAY PROPERTY TAX FOR PROPERTY THEY DON'T OWN DO TO THE CITY.

WHY AREN'T CHURCHES CHURCHED PROPERTY TAX?

HOMESTEADS ARE CHARGED PROPERTY TAXES BASED ON VALUE OF THE BUILDING?

>> BELIEVE SO.

>>Daryl: VALUE OF BUILDING YOU'RE CHARGED FOR?

REPEAT YOUR QUESTION.

>>Daryl: HOMESTEAD LESSEE DOESN'T UNDERSTAND WHY THEY HAVE TO PAY PROPERTY TAX FOR PROPERTY THEY DON'T OWN BECAUSE IT'S A LEASE THEY HAVE TO PAY PROPERTY TAXES TOO.

THAT'S SET ON THE VALUE OF THE BUILDING.

>> BUILDING.

IMPROVEMENT.

PROPERTY TAXES ISN'T ON RESIDENTIAL.

NOT ON THE LAND.

ON THE BUILDING.

>> ONE THE THINGS WE DIDN'T TALK ABOUT BEFORE.

MISUNDERSTANDING PEOPLE HAVE.

>> PROPERTY TAXES IS TWO PARTS.

LAND PART AND THE BUILDING PART.

SO COMBINED.

>> YEAH.

IT IS.

>> SO BUT SO LESSEE, WHETHER LESSEE ON HOMESTEAD LAND, OR LESSEE IN A LEASEHOLD BUILDING IF THERE'S ANY LEFT, ARE THEY GOING TO BE CHARGED FULL VALUE MARKET VALUE OF THEIR PROPERTY?

EVEN IF IT'S ON LEASED AND ONLY PAYING DEPENDS WHAT THE LEASE SAYS.

>> REAL PROPERTY TAX PASSED ON TO THE OCCUPANT.

>>Daryl: ASSESSED LOWER THAN FEE SIMPLE PROPERTY?

>> WELL, OUR APPRAISERS WILL COMPARE, SALES INFORMATION TO OTHER SALES DATA ON LEASEHOLD PROPERTY TO TRY TO GET COMP THAT WAY WITHIN A CERTAIN REGION.

>>Daryl: SO I WANT TO INVOLVE RAQUEL SITTING THERE.

BEFORE WE MOVE ON, WHAT WOULD YOU LIKE TO SEE IN TERMS OF PROTECTION.

PRIMARILY CONCERNED ABOUT KUPUNA AND INCREASES.

>> KUPUNA AND RETIREES ARE THE PROPERTY.

>> WORK ALL THESE YEARS TO SET THEMSELVES UP TO BE COMFORTABLE IN THESE YEARS.

NOT PART OF THEIR PLAN SUCH A DRASTIC MEASURE.

EVERYBODY, OVERALL PROPERTY TAX SYSTEM IS JUST NEEDS SOME LIKE ANDREW MENTIONED, TWEAKING.

SOME ATTENTION.

TO ADDRESS BECAUSE TIMES CHANGE.

QUICKLY.

THAT WE HAVE TO ADDRESS THOSE TIMES AS WELL.

I THINK THERE ARE OPTIONS.

I HAVE AG LAND.

BUT I ALSO HAVE I'M ZONED AG, I HAVE AG LAND RATE.

HOWEVER, I HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO DEDICATE MY LAND WHICH ADJUSTS MY PROPERTY TAX.

>>Daryl: WAYS AROUND.

>> YEAH.

>>Daryl: MOVE ON TO ANOTHER PROPOSAL.

HEARD FLOATED AT THE COUNCIL.

WHY CAN'T WE MAKE PROPERTY TAX BASED ON COST OF LIVING AND NOT VERY BASED ON YEARLY PROPERTY VALUE ASSESSMENTS?

POLICY CALL.

>> POLICY CALL THAT I THINK WILL BE OPEN TO IT.

BECAUSE IF BASED ON COST OF LIVING ALLOWANCE, IT DOES NOT FULFILL OBLIGATION OF MEETING OUR CURRENT SERVICES, THEN WE'LL HAVE TO ASK THE MAYOR AND COUNCIL TO GO BACK AND LOOK AT THE PROPERTY TAX RATES.

>>Daryl: WHAT HAPPENS, DARYL, IS MAYOR AND HIS ADMINISTRATION WILL APPROPRIATES THAT ARE APPLIED TO THE ASSESSED VALUATIONS.

THAT'S A PART OF THE BUDGET PROCESS.

THOSE CALCULATED AMOUNTS WILL AMOUNT TO REAL PROPERTY TAX REVENUE.

REVENUES AND OTHER FEES THAT CITY COLLECTS WILL HAVE TO COVER OUR OPERATING BUDGET.

AND AS CALVIN SAID, WHAT HAPPENED IS IF WE CAN'T BALANCE THE BUDGET, SOMETHING HAS TO GIVE.

>> SO WE EITHER CUT SERVICES ON THE EXPENDITURE SIDE, OR WE INCREASE RATE ON THE REVENUE SIDE.

TO BALANCE THE BUDGET.

>>Daryl: OR GET LEGISLATURE TO GIVE YOU ANOTHER WAY OF RAISING MONEY.

RIGHT?

TRACY, FIRST TIME HOME BUYERS CAN THEY PUT A KUPUNA'S NAME ON THEIR DEED TO LOWER PROPERTY TAXES?

>> THAT, I WOULD DEFER TO CORPORATION COUNSEL.

I DON'T KNOW.

>>Daryl: REALLY A BAD IDEA TO PUT RANDOM PEOPLE ON YOUR TITLE.

>> YEAH.

>>Daryl: MY LONG TIME HAWAII FRIEND BOUGHT A HOUSE.

ON THE MAINLAND.

BEFORE HE RETIRED.

HAD TO PAY DOUBLE PROPERTY TAXES ON THAT PROPERTY IN HE MOVED INTO HIS HOUSE.

WHY DON'T HAWAII DO THE SAME TO NONHAWAII RESIDENTS INSTEAD OF INCREASING MY PROPERTY TAXES.

LARRY FROM ROYAL KUNIA.

POSSIBLE TO DO TAX MAINLAND OWNERS MORE THAN LOCAL OWNERS OF A PROPERTY?

IS THAT EVEN LEGAL?

>> I DON'T THINK IT IS.

I THINK IT'S UNCONSTITUTIONAL TO DO THAT BUT WE ARE LOOKING AT THE EMPTY HOMES TAX.

>>Daryl: TALK ABOUT THAT.

NUMBERS I HEARD SURPRISINGLY.

>> ALL OVER THE PLACE.

LOOK AT DIFFERENT STUDIES, DIFFERENT NUMBERS.

SOME STUDIES SAY THERE ARE 20 TO 30,000 EMPTY HOMES ON OAHU.

YOU READ OTHER, SAY IT COULD BE UP TO 80,000.

WE DON'T KNOW YET.

WE PUT OF OUR FY '24 BUDGET, PROPOSED DOLLARS TO DO A STUDY TO UNDERSTAND THE ISSUE.

>> AND ALSO, UNDERSTAND HOW SHOULD WE SET UP A DIVISION OR UNIT TO ACTUALLY ADMINISTER SUCH A TAX AND DO IT RIGHT.

>> I'M VERY GLAD TO HEAR THAT THE CITY IS GOING TO DO A STUDY ON THAT IMPACT OF EMPTY HOMES.

STUDY GRASSROOTS INSTITUTE ON OUTSIDE BUYERS.

BOTTOM LINE REALLY HAVE TO PROCEED FROM A RESEARCH BASE IN FORMULATING OUR POLICIES.

BECAUSE THERE'S SO MUCH EMOTION INVOLVED.

AND IT'S EASY TO COME TO CONCLUSIONS BECAUSE WE SEE SOMETHING HAPPENING IN OUR NEIGHBORHOOD, BUT I REALLY AM GLAD THAT THE CITY IS GOING TO TAKE A GOOD QUANTITATIVE LOOK AT THAT BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT WILL BE USED AS THE BASIS OF GOOD POLICY.

>>Daryl: SPEAKING OF DIVIDING AND CONQUERING.

ANOTHER GROUP THAT PEOPLE SUSPECT ARE NOT PAYING PROPERTY TAXES.

IF IT'S NOT MAINLANDERS, WHO ARE THE BUYERS SELLERS?

MILITARY STIPEND OFF FOR OFF BASES $750,000, TURN AND TO SELL THEIR HOME FOR OVER $750,000.

OWNERS RELOCATE.

LARGE FACTOR HIGHER HOUSING PRICES.

>> DO YOU THINK, I CAN ANSWER THAT.

>> OKAY.

WHO IS BUYING THE HOMES?

I WAS IN A MEETING WITH KAMEHAMEHA SCHOOLS, HUGHES AN OTHER DEVELOPERS KAKAAKO MAUKA.

DEVELOPERS ACCORDING TO THEIR OWN STATISTICS, TELL US THE MAJORITY OF THOSE APARTMENT UNITS ARE PURCHASED BY LOCAL PEOPLE.

AND WHAT KIND OF LOCAL PEOPLE?

FOR EXAMPLE, IF YOU HAVE OWNED A HOME IN PEARL CITY, FOR 30 YEAR, NOW, YOU'RE A MILLIONAIRE.

YOU'VE GOT EQUITY.

WITH WHICH TO BUY A APARTMENT TO HELP YOUR CHILDREN GET STARTED.

SO THE VAST MAJORITY OF HOMES SALES ACCORDING TO THE RESEARCH, IS BY LOCALS.

>>Daryl: THROW OUT ANOTHER QUESTION.

A LOT OF QUESTIONS, THANK YOU AUDIENCE.

VERY SMART QUESTIONS.

THIS PERSON ASKS, WAIT A MINUTE, THIS EXEMPTION AMOUNT IS A FIXED AMOUNT BASED A POLICY.

I DON'T KNOW HOW LONG AGO IT WAS SET.

>> IT'S LAW.

>>Daryl: THINK ABOUT ITJOE FROM HILO.

QUESTION IS COMPLICATED.

COMPLETELY UNDERSTAND WHAT HE'S SAYING.

>> BASICALLY SAYING BACK IN THE DAY, YOUR EXEMPTION IS $100,000, THAT'S WHEN THE HOUSE WAS PROBABLY WORTH $300,000.

SO 30% OF THAT HOUSE WAS BEING EXEMPTED AT THAT TIME.

NOW IT'S 10%.

SO SHOULD YOU JUST, WOULD IT BE FAIR TO DRAMATICALLY INCREASE THAT EXEMPTION?

EXISTING EXEMPTION.

WHY NOT JUST GET IT UP TO THE 30% LEVEL?

>> EVER DO THAT PARTICULAR ROUTE OR PATH OF TAKING 30%, WHERE DO YOU MAKE THAT PARTICULAR 20% LOSS.

>>Daryl: I DON'T CARE.

WANT TO PAY LESS TAXES.

>> SAYING TO MYSELF, I'M LOOKING AT BEING RESPONSIBLE CITY COUNCILMEMBER, TRYING TO ADDRESS GOVERNMENT SERVICES, THAT'S ONE IMPORTANT FOR ME.

AND SECONDLY, LOOKING AT ALL OF THESE OTHER EXEMPTIONS THAT WE COULD MAYBE TRY TO REPEAL.

USE THAT AS PART OF THE OVERALL FUNDING TO ADDRESS THAT PARTICULAR ISSUE.

BUT I DON'T THINK EVER GET TO 30% BECAUSE OF THE SUPPLY AND QUESTION OF DEMAND.

ONE.

>> SECONDLY, BIGGER ISSUE IS HAWAII'S MOST BEST PLACE, SPECIAL PLACE TO LIVE IN THE WORLD.

>>Daryl: QUICK.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

>>Daryl: REAL QUICK.

I KNOW.

THANK GOD WE LIVE HERE.

ANONYMOUS, WANTED TO POINT OUT, I APPRECIATE THIS.

>> THAT HOMESTEAD OCCUPANTS PAY MINIMAL TAX $300 A YEAR REGARDLESS OF PROPERTY.

>> THAT'S A CERTAIN CLASS.

CARVED OUT IN ORDINANCE.

THAT'S CORRECT.

CAN I SAY THIS?

LOOKING NUMBER OF AMOUNT OF EXEMPTIONS OF COUNTY OAHU, HAWAIIAN HOMES 7 YEAR PROGRAM.

>> 116 WHICH IS ABOUT 77,000, THEN WE HAVE THE HAWAIIAN HOMES COMMISSION, ANOTHER 300, 14 NUMBERS AS FAR AS INDIVIDUALS, AND FINALLY, BIGGEST ONE WAS THE HAWAIIAN HOMES LAND 3,891 INDIVIDUALS AT A LOSS OF 2.5 MILLION.

TO THE GENERAL FUND.

>>Daryl: THANK YOU.

KEEP WANTING TO CALL YOU REPRESENTATIVE OR SPEAKER.

>> YOU COULD CALL ME UNCLE.

>>Daryl: OKAY.

COUPLE QUESTIONS THAT ARE MAYBE NOT RELATED BUT I'M GOING TO RELATE THEM.

BOB SAYS GIVEN ALL THE DON'T BUILDING OVER THE PAST 30 YEARS MANY FOREIGN BUYERS.

>> HOW HAVE PROPERTY TAXES GROWN OVER THIS PERIOD?

SECOND QUESTION IS, IS CITY & COUNTY OF HONOLULU USING THE INCREASE IN PROPERTY TAXES TAX RATE TO PAY THEIR SALARIES?

WHERE IS THE EXTRA MONEY GOING?

REALLY, WITH ALL OF THE INCREASE IN VALUES, OF THE PROPERTY, IN THIS ISLAND, IS CITY GOVERNMENT TOO BIG?

WE SPENT SO LONG CHASING THE TAXES AND RISING TAXES SHOULD WE THINK MORE ABOUT WHAT WE'RE SPENDING?

I THINK YOU'RE ALSO INVOLVED SPENDING SIDE OF THE EQUATION.

>> YEAH.

>> WE LOOK AT ALL OF OUR AGENCIES THAT PROVIDE SERVICES TO THE PUBLIC.

IN GENERAL PUBLIC WANTS MORE SERVICE, BETTER SERVICE.

>> MORE SERVICE.

>> MORE PUBLIC SAFETY.

THEY WANT MORE WATER SAFETY ALL SHORES AROUND THE ISLAND.

BEACHES PEOPLE GO TO.

DEMAND FOR MORE SERVICES ACTUALLY ENDLESS.

I THINK THAT, YOU'RE RIGHT.

WE HAVE TO MANAGE THE COST SIDE.

REVENUE SIDE, IS LIMITED.

>> I THINK MR. KAWANO IS CORRECT.

LOOK AT WHAT HAPPENED MAYBE TEN, 20 YEARS AGO.

I WASN'T HERE.

BUT WHEN WE CREATED THE WAIANAE STATION?

HOW MANY YEARS?

POLICE STATION.

>> STILL NOT COMPLETELY DONE?

>> YOU SEE?

THEN YOU LOOK AT ALL THE OTHER SERVICES THAT WE REALLY DO NEED.

I'M TELLING YOU, THAT'S WHY I REALLY TRY TO SUPPORT ALL OF THE COUNTY EMPLOYEES.

THEY ARE OUR FIRST RESPONDERS.

WHEN YOU NEED THEM, FOR INCIDENTS SUCH AS DOMESTIC ABUSE OFFICERS ARE THERE.

MEDICAL ISSUE, FIRE DEPARTMENT IS THERE.

MEDICAL AMBULANCE THEY'RE THERE.

>> ALL I'M SAYING IS WE ARE THE FIRST RESPONDERS TO EVERYTHING.

FINALLY, I REALLY HAVE TO SAY, I SAY THIS A LOT OF TIMES AT THE COUNCIL MEETING, I SUPPORT MY OPALA WORKERS.

IF THEY DON'T PICK UP THE RUBBISH, WHO'S GOING TO PICK IT UP?

>> I AGREE BUT WE NEED SERVICE BUT I GET NERVOUS TO BOOST COUNTY BUDGET EVERY YEAR.

1.5 THROUGH PROPERTY TAXES.

INCREASE ASSESSMENTS, 1.6 TO 1.7 WILL COME IN THIS COMING YEAR.

WE REALLY TO LOOK AT LOWER COST AND INCREASING EFFICIENCY GOVERNMENT SERVICES.

>>Daryl: THAT WOULD BE GREAT.

>> >> MANY WAYS DO IT.

>> >>Daryl: PERSON WHO ON THE NORTH SHORE, AREA THAT ALWAYS NEEDS MORE HELP, MORE POLICE OFFICERS, MORE PARKS, SO ON, DO YOU FEEL LIKE CITY & COUNTY IS CAN SAVE MONEY OR DO YOU FEEL LIKE THEY'VE TO FIND A WAY OF TAKING BETTER CARE OF THE RESIDENTS WHO ARE HERE.

>> OVERALL, HAVE TO START PAYING MORE ATTENTION TO THE P PEOPLE OF THIS PLACE.

I THINK IT'S MORE OF MANAGEMENT AND NAVAGATEDDING AS WE CHANGE WITH TIMES ISSUE.

THE NORTH SHORE WITH A 20% INCREASE, REASON THAT STINKS SO HARD, PAYING SO MUCH MORE, BUT VERY LITTLE INVESTMENT PUT BACK INTO OUR COMMUNITIES.

ROADS ARE HORRIBLE.

PARKS IN DISARRAY.

DON'T SEE THAT INVESTMENT BEING PUT IN.

WE'RE A CASH COW.

TOURISTS COME OUT THERE IN DRONES.

SO WE'RE THE ONES THAT ARE SACRIFICING, IF I CAN BE SO BLUNT, IS WE'RE SACRIFICING OUR WAY OF LIFE AND NOW, OUR ABILITY TO STAY IN OUR HOMES TO ADJUST FOR ALL OF THAT.

I THINK THE VACANT TAX IS A GREAT IDEA.

HOWEVER, I THINK WHICH ALSO NEED TO BE CAREFUL WHAT IF I TALK MY MOM OUT OF HER HOME TO LIVE WITH ME TO CARE FOR HER, HOW DO I ADJUST FOR THAT?

MOVE OUT OF MY HOME TO LIVE WITH HER TO TAKE CARE OF HER, WE HAVE TO FOCUS MORE ON THE ACTUAL PEOPLE THAT ARE OF THIS PLACE OF COMMUNITY.

THAT HAVE BEEN HERE FOREVER.

AND THERE IS A WAY TO LOOK AT THAT.

ALL OF THE INFORMATION IS THERE.

JUST A MATTER OF COMING UP WITH A PLAN.

>>Daryl: THIS IS INTERESTING QUESTION.

I THINK IT'S ANOTHER BIG PICTURE WE CAN MOVE TO.

AS I KIND OF WATCH THE CLOCK HERE.

I REALIZE CITY MAKES A LOT OF MONEY FROM PROPERTY TAXES.

BUT IS THERE ANOTHER WAY CITY COULD GET REVENUE BESIDES RAISING PROPERTY TAXES?

IS THERE ANY HOPE OF GETTING MORE MONEY OUT OF THE STATE?

I DON'T KNOW WHETHER IT'S STATE OR COUNTY.

PEOPLE DON'T CARE WHERE SERVICES ARE COMING FROM.

MONEY IS COMING OUT OF THEIR POCKET.

>> OPPOSITE.

COVERING COST PUSHED TO COUNTY.

IN THE PROCESS OF TAKING OVER ALL OF THE OPERATIONS, EMERGENCY SERVICE, EMS, AMBULATORY SERVICES.

THAT'S A $50 MILLION ANNUAL BUDGET.

AND SO THE STATE FULLY COVERED THAT COST UNTIL A COUPLE YEARS AGO.

WE'RE THIS YEAR 3, GOING ON YEAR 4, PHASING OUT SUBSIDY TO COVER IT.

>> WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO PUT IN A SYSTEM TO BILL FOR THE SERVICES RELATED TO AMBULANCE AND FIND WAYS TO CLOSE THE GAP BECAUSE I THINK THE OPERATING LOSS ON THAT $50 MILLION BUDGET IS ABOUT $20 MILLION.

>>Daryl: YOU WERE AT THE LEGISLATURE.

YOU KNOW WHAT THEIR ATTITUDE IS TOWARDS COUNTIES.

DO YOU THINK THAT THERE IS ANY HOPE OF THE STATE LEGISLATURE ALLOWING THE COUNTIES TO RAISE, THEY DID GIVE COUNTIES 3% ON THE HOTEL ROOM TAX.

WHICH THEY IMMEDIATELY ALL GOT A HOLD OF.

IS THERE OTHER THINGS THAT YOU THINK THE STATE COULD CONSIDER OR SHOULD CONSIDER NOW YOU'RE SAYING FROM THE OTHER SIDE.

>> BE CANDID AND HONEST.

ANSWER IS NO.

I DO NOT WANT TO TAKE THE INCOME TAX FROM THE STATE.

I DON'T WANT TO TAKE GENERAL EXCISE TAX.

MOST REGRESSIVE.

GENERAL EXCISE TAX BIG TICKET AND INCOME TAX AND T.A.T.

RATHER SEE 3% T.A.T.

TO ALL FOUR COUNTIES.

>> CERTAIN PHILOSOPHICAL SIDE.

MOVE AWAY FROM THINKING THE WAY TO RAISE MORE MONEY TAX OUR PEOPLE.

MORE WE TAX OUR PEOPLE, OUR PEOPLE MORE TAXED, LESS MONEY TO SPEND.

THINK CREATIVELY.

I LIKE THE IDEA OF SHORT‑TERM REBATE $300.

WHAT ABOUT REBATE EVERY BUSINESS?

>>Daryl: HOW MUCH OF OUR PROPERTY TAXES COME FROM BUSINESS PROPERTY?

I KNOW RESORTS ARE TAXED PRETTY HEAVILY.

THAT'S BEEN GOING UP.

I MEAN, HOW MUCH IS OF THIS IS FROM BUSINESS AND WHAT ABOUT HITTING BUSINESSES WITH MORE PROPERTY TAX.

>> CURRENT SPLIT RIGHT NOW, IS ABOUT 56, 57% FROM RESIDENTIAL PROPERTIES.

REST FROM HOTEL, COMMERCIAL, INDUSTRIAL.

I DON'T HAVE A BREAKDOWN IN MY HEAD.

>>Daryl: WHAT?

>> I DON'T.

OKAY.

YEAH.

>>Daryl: IS THAT A NUMBER THAT YOU COULD JUST SAY POLICYWISE, WE'RE GOING TO CRANK THAT TO 50‑50 AND COMPUTE THE RATES THAT WAY?

>> I THINK WE NEED TO BREAK THINGS DOWN AND LOOK AT NUMBERS ABOUT BEFORE WE DO THAT HOTELIERS ARE ALREADY SAYING PAYING TOO MUCH.

IN TAXES OVERALL.

NOT JUST TO THE COUNTY BUT TO THE STATE AS WELL.

SO WE NEED TO KIND OF BREAK THINGS DOWN AND DO A REALITY CHECK.

>>Daryl: WE HAVE OUR BUSINESS CLIMATE COMPLAINTS ALREADY.

>> SO EXPENSIVE.

>> I DON'T THINK IT'S THE RIGHT DIRECTION FOR TO US THINK THE WAY RAISE REVENUES IS TO TAX OUR BUSINESSES MORE.

THAT'S THE GOOSE THAT LAYS GOLDEN EGG.

WE WANT TO FOSTER BUSINESS AND ECONOMY HERE.

AND THAT IS GOING PRODUCE TAX REVENUES IN THE LONG RUN.

>>Daryl: FOR THE STATE.

>> ALSO FOR THE CITY.

>>Daryl: I'M GOING MOVE TO CALVIN SAY.

IN TERMS OF THE ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I HEAR FROM STATE LEGISLATORS ALL THE TIME POINT OUT OAHU, AND COUNTIES PROPERTY TAXES HERE ARE MUCH LOWER THAN WHAT PEOPLE ARE PAYING ON THE MAINLAND.

MOST PLACES.

IS IT FAIR FOR PEOPLE TO SAY, ACTUALLY, ALL OF THIS COMPLAINING OUR PROPERTY TAXES ARE ACTUALLY PRETTY LOW.

>> COMPARED TO THE MAINLAND.

PROBABLY BECAUSE MAINLAND AS FAR AS STATES OR COUNTIES THEY HAVE RESPONSIBILITY OF DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION.

WHICH IS A BIG TICKET ITEM.

IF YOU LOOK AT THE STATE BUDGETS.

IF WE'RE TAKE IT OVER, YOU HOPE THEY WOULD GIVE US GENERAL EXCISE TAX WHAT THEY'RE PAYING OUT RIGHT NOW.

I THINK WE HAVE TO DRAW A REAL DISTINCTION BETWEEN PROPERTY TAX RATE WHICH IS VERY, VERY LOW, AND PROPERTY TAX ITSELF.

WHICH ISN'T THAT LOW.

WE'RE 29TH IF WE TAKE THE MOST RECENT SURVEY OF 2 YEARS AGO.

IN THE COUNTRY IN TERMS OF AMOUNT THAT OUR INDIVIDUALS PAY IN PROPERTY TAXES.

PROBABLY HIGHER NOW ACTUALLY.

>>Daryl: PARSE OUT THE NUMBERS.

PEOPLE UNDERSTAND IT.

WHAT IS 29%?

WHAT IS 29%.

>> RANKED 29TH IN THE NATION.

>>Daryl: COMPARING WHAT TO WHAT.

>> OF ALL 50 STATES FOR THE PROPERTY TAXES THAT THE PEOPLE OF HAWAII PAY.

THAT IS RISING.

WE'RE PROBABLY HIGHER NOW.

POINTING THIS OUT BECAUSE AMOUNT OF PROPERTY TAXES WE PAY IS NOT REALLY THAT LOW.

THE RATE WE PAY IS LOW.

BUT BECAUSE PROPERTY COSTS SO MUCH HERE IN HAWAII, WE END UP PAYING MORE PROPERTY TAXES THAN MOST STATES IN THE NATION.

>>Daryl: IS THAT A MACRO FIGURE THAT IS HERE IS ALL THE PROPERTY TAXES BEING PAID ON OAHU VERSUS SIMILAR SIZED PLACE ON THE MAINLAND?

OR BASED ON HOMEOWNER TAXES OR RESIDENTIAL TAXES?

I MEAN IS OUR RESIDENTIAL TAX RATE EXCEPTIONALLY LOW?

>> YES.

ACROSS THE BOARD.

RESIDENTIAL AND COMMERCIAL.

>> AT 3.50 PER THOUSAND, FAR LOW END.

HIGHEST COST OF LIVING TOO.

REVENUE STREAM HAS TO BALANCE WITH THE EXPENDITURE STREAM.

WE ALWAYS HAVE TO GET TO A BALANCED BUDGET.

AND I THINK THAT YOU KNOW, DEVIL IS IN THE DETAILS BECAUSE WE CAN LOOK AT PROPERTY TAXES PER CAPITA PAID BY ALL CITIES MUNICIPALITIES.

AS CALVIN SAID, YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT THE SERVICES PROVIDED AS WELL.

DOES THE COUNTY, CITY OR COUNTY PROVIDE EDUCATIONAL SERVICE?

>> COSTS MORE TO PROVIDE SERVICES.

>> IN GENERAL, HAWAII COST OF LIVING IS HIGHER.

ALL OF OUR FOOD, MOST OF OUR FOOD IS STILL SHIPPED FROM THE MAINLAND.

PAID EIGHT DOLLARS FOR A LOAF OF BREAD THE OTHER DAY.

SEVERAL QUESTIONS HERE.

I WANT TO GO THROUGH THESE QUICKLY.

PRIMARILY BY ANDY.

THESE ARE SPECIFIC QUESTIONS PEOPLE HAVE ABOUT THEIR TAX SITUATION.

FOR EXAMPLE, APPRAISAL, CAN THEY DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT?

CAN I GET AN INDEPENDENT APPRAISAL IF IT CAME IN AT LOWER AMOUNT?

COMPARE THAT?

YOUR CHANCE DO THAT THIS YEAR IS GONE.

RIGHT?

APPEAL PROCESS.

>> APPEAL WINDOW IS FROM DECEMBER 15 THROUGH JANUARY 15.

>> HOW DO THE APPEALS GO THIS YEAR?

DID PEOPLE WIN APPEALS?

>> TALKED TO OUR ASSESSMENT OFFICE.

IT'S ABOUT THE SAME.

30% OF THE TIME, THE APPELLANT GETS WINS, AND 70% OF THE TIME, THE CITY PREVAILS.

IT'S ABOUT 30/70 SPLIT.

>>Daryl: DOES THAT MAKE YOU HE FEEL LIKE YOUR APPRAISALS ARE PRETTY ACCURATE?

>> GENERALLY SPEAKING YES.

AT THE SAME TIME, WE WANT TO HELP TAXPAYORS AS WELL.

SO WE ARE WORKING ON OUR WEBSITE TO BE MORE INFORMATIVE SO THAT PEOPLE KNOW THEIR RIGHTS AND ENSURE THAT NEXT TIME AROUND, IF THEY MISSED IT THIS TIME, THEY ACTUALLY FILE AN APPEAL ON TIME.

>>Daryl: TALKED ABOUT THE AGE 65 EXEMPTION.

WHICH I'M PARTICULARLY FASCINATED BY.

DEADLINE FOR FILING THAT ONE?

CAN I CALL YOUR OFFICE TOMORROW.

>> IT SHOULD BE AUTOMATIC.

WHEN YOU FILE FOR EXEMPTION FIRST TIME, YOU PROVIDE YOUR BIRTH DATE AT THAT TIME.

SO SYSTEM TRACKS IT.

>>Daryl: THAT WAS 27 YEARS AGO.

I DON'T REMEMBER.

>> THIS IS WHY IT'S SO IMPORTANT THAT WE HAVE THIS TYPE OF DISCUSSION.

DISSEMINATION OF INFORMATION IS BENEFITING ALL OF THOSE THAT ARE WATCHING TONIGHT.

AND I THINK WHAT ANDY JUST SAID, IS THE TRUTH.

THAT WE ARE CREATING A NEW HOW WOULD YOU SAY, PUBLIC RELATIONS TYPE OF OUTREACH.

>> TRYING TO DO MORE OUTREACH AND SHARE INFORMATION WITH THE PUBLIC.

>>Daryl: THAT WILL COST MORE TOO.

>> OUTREACH STUFF.

TRYING TO DO IT EFFICIENTLY.

>>Daryl: OUR FAMILY OWNS A VACANT LOT ON OAHU FOR SEVERAL GENERATION.

>> A LOT OF HOMEOWNERS, PROPERTY OWNERS LIKE THAT.

JUST A CARRYOVER, TOO MANY PEOPLE WHO ARE OWNERS AND THEY CAN'T REALLY MAKE IMPROVEMENT.

HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE TO IMPROVE IT.

COST TO BUILD A HOUSE EXTRAORDINARY.

ANYTHING TO DO WITHOUT HAVING TO SELL A LOT.

BREAK FOR VACANT LOT, OUR SYSTEM MAKE IT YOU BETTER DEVELOP THAT PROPERTY?

>> PRESENT POLICY YOU CAN'T SIT ON IT.

YOU'VE GOT TO DO SOMETHING WITH IT.

RAW PIECE OF LAND, YOU'LL BE PAYING REAL PROPERTY TAX ON THE FEE ITSELF.

AND NOT THE IMPROVEMENT.

>>Daryl: WITHOUT GETTING BENEFIT OUT OF IT.

>> YEAH.

>>Daryl: I MISSED DEADLINE TO CONTEST MY PROPERTY VALUATION.

WAIT TILL NEXT YEAR.

BIG ECONOMIC QUESTIONS.

DO YOU THINK FED INTEREST RATE HIKES ARE GOING TO DAMPEN HOME PRICES IN HAWAII AND LOWER PROPERTY TAXES?

ARE YOU STARTING TO CRANK THAT IN?

ANTICIPATING LOWER.

>> LOOKING AT IT.

BOARD OF REALTORS, REPORTED DROP IN THE MEDIAN PRICE ON HOME SALES UNDER A MILLION DOLLARS.

>> IT IS COOLING OFF.

AND WE DON'T KNOW WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN COME NEXT YEAR.

NEXT YEAR'S ASSESSMENT.

BUT TREND IS THE KIND OF SCARY.

THERE'S A LOT OF UNCERTAINTY OUT THERE.

>> WHAT I HEARD THIS MORNING FACT OF MATTER THIRD QUARTER OF THIS YEARS, MAJOR SLOW DOWN.

A LOT OF PROJECTS THAT ARE IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR CONSTRUCTION, WILL BE ALL SHIFTING TO GOVERNMENT CONSTRUCTION.

PICK UP THE SLACK AT THAT PERIOD IN TIME.

FOR INVESTMENT PURPOSES.

>>Daryl: IS THERE ANY CONSOLATION OR COMFORT IN KNOWING THAT MAYBE YOUR REAL ESTATE PROPERTY WILL GO DOWN AND SO WILL TAXES?

>> NO.

>>Daryl: DOESN'T MAKE YOU FEEL ANY BETTER.

>> YOU KNOW, SO MANY PEOPLE HAVE LOST FAITH IN IT, THAT I THINK IT'S BASED, I'M LOOK AT MY COMMUNITY EVERY DAY.

AND I JUST SEE IT'S HARD TO WATCH.

IT'S HARD TO WATCH.

IT'S HARD TO WATCH PEOPLE STRUGGLE AND IT'S HARD TO WATCH PEOPLE BEEN THERE BEFORE DIRER, NOW CONTEMPLATING WHETHER THEY SHOULD REALLY BE HERE OR NOT.

I THINK AS TO YOUR POINT EARLIER, IT'S NOT SO MUCH THE RATE.

THE VALUATION.

AND THE ABILITY TO REALLY KIND OF NAVIGATE THAT AND ASSESS IT IN A DIFFERENT WAY.

LOOK AT IT DIFFERENT WAY.

GIVE CONSIDERATION.

I ALWAYS GO BACK TO THE PEOPLE OF THIS PLACE AND KUPUNA.

BUT ALSO, TO THE FACT OF TO POINT OF PROPERTY TAX BEING LOWER HERE THAN ON THE MAINLAND.

THAT IS A LARGE REASON THE MAINLAND GUYS BUY HERE.

BECAUSE THEY CAN AFFORD TO SIT ON IT.

AND THEY ARE NOT OWNER OCCUPANT.

SO IT'S AFFORDABLE FOR THEM COMPARED TO WHERE THEY'RE AT.

SO THEY CAN COME BACK AND FORTH AND NOT ONLY HAVE YOU NOT PAYING REALLY FAIR SHARE, BUT YOU TOOK THAT HOUSE OUT OF THAT MARKET FOR ANYBODY TO RENT OR BUY LOCALLY.

SO THAT'S A CONSIDERATION TOO.

>>Daryl: LAST QUESTION, ONLY GOT ABOUT 20 SECONDS.

HOW MUCH IS THE PROPERTY TAX AS DRIVER OF COST OF LIVING IN THIS ISLAND ANYWAY?

WE'VE BEEN HAVING A LONG CONVERSATION ABOUT IT.

BUT REALLY, OUT OF TYPICAL FAMILY BUDGET, HOW MUCH OF THAT IS PROPERTY TAXES?

>> TEN SECONDS.

QUESTION WAS TOO LONG.

>> I THINK OTHER LARGER DRIVERS.

FUEL, FOOD, AND SO ON, THAT'S DRIVING INFLATION.

I DON'T THINK IT'S PROPERTY TAXES.

>>Daryl: THANK YOU ALL OF FOR JOINING US TONIGHT.

AND WE THANK OUR GUESTS: MAHALO TO YOU FOR JOINING US TONIGHT, AND WE THANK OUR GUESTS UNCLE SAY COUNCILMEMBER CALVIN SAY AND RACQUEL ACHIU, ANDREW KAWANO AND KELII AKINA.

NEXT WEEK, INSIGHTS WILL BE TAKING A BREAK, INSTEAD PLEASE JOIN US FOR KAKOU: HAWAII’S TOWN HALL REGARDING CONCEALED CARRY LAWS.

WE’RE ASKING THE QUESTION, SHOULD THE GOVERNMENT RESTRICT WHERE GUNS ARE ALLOWED?

PLEASE JOIN US THEN.

I’M DARYL HUFF FOR INSIGHTS ON PBS HAWAII.

ALOHA!