Overlooking the Pacific Ocean, the  Shangri La Museum of Islamic Art, Culture & Design is a place where art, ideas,  and people connect.

Here we meet Jack Kittinger, a conservation leader whose life's work is  shaped, sustained and renewed by the sea.

I was really lucky to grow up  in an island community in the barrier islands of North Carolina, known  as the Outer Banks.

And when you're a kid, you don't really know what you have is so  rare and special, but when you move away, you understand that much more deeply.

And the little beach town that I'm from, Wrightsville Beach, North Carolina,  we grew up boating, fishing, surfing, diving and had a real aquatic upbringing, which  was super fun as a kid.

And they really informed why I do what I do now because I was in and around  the environment all the time as a young person.

At what point did you realize that you  wanted to go into the environmental work?

I learned how to drive a boat before I learned  how to a drive a car.

So, at some sense, I knew that I wanted to do something in  the environment and something in ocean work originally.

But when I was young, I didn't really  have a conception of what that could be.

You know, I didn't have a pathway to follow.

It was kind of like an exploration, like an adventure.

How do you arrive into  the conservation sector?

And it's taken a lot of twists and turns.

But I think growing  up in and around and very connected to nature, that was the fun, foundation for  it all and how it all started.

For Jack, it started with education: a  degree in biology from the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, then  a Master's in Marine and Environmental Studies from UC San Diego and a PhD in  Geography and Marine Policy from UH Mānoa.

You initially started out  pursuing academia.

What changed?

I got a faculty interview at the University of  British Columbia in Vancouver.

And I was super excited about this interview because it's a  very prestigious university and the program that was interviewing for me is well-known  globally.

And in the interview process, the sole female member of the faculty  asked me this question.

She said, let's imagine Jack that we hire you here on  the faculty and you've had this great career and you'd done all these amazing things and  we throw you a retirement party.

What did you do?

And I gave her this answer that was sort  of what I thought she wanted to hear, right?

And she slammed her hand down on the table and  she said, that's not good enough.

I know you and that's not actually what you care about.

What  are we actually celebrating if you've worked here for decades?

And I said, if something is different  out in the ocean because of something that I did, that would be worth celebrating.

And she just  leaned back and said, that's more like it.

And that interaction stuck with me because what  she essentially was asking me is what matters to you in your life?

When all of this is said  and done and you're at the end of your life, what impact did you have?

And that led me into  the field of being a conservation practitioner.

Since that interaction in 2011, Jack has  worked with Conservation International, a global nonprofit protecting nature in more  than 100 countries.

In Hawai‘i, the organization helped lead one of the hardest-fought  environmental victories in recent memory: the passage of the landmark visitor Green  Fee.

The first-of-its-kind legislation in the U.S.

is expected to generate $100 million  every year to protect Hawai‘i’s environment.

That effort really stemmed out of work that  we've done elsewhere to support that.

And one of the most iconic versions of this is in the  beautiful island nation of Palau.

And Palau instituted a visitor green fee more than 10  years ago.

It's been an immensely successful effort.

And we looked at that and other places  like Aotearoa and the Galapagos and said, huh, maybe we could do something like that here.

And we've been on a long journey to get a visitor green fee passed and we got it passed this  last legislative session, which was incredible.

That must have been quite a victory for you.

It felt like an incredible, one of the  most amazing moments of my professional career.

And to be clear, I'm just one  out of dozens, if not hundreds of people that have helped make this happen.

At the beginning of this effort, it felt completely like a moonshot.

Like this  is some wild idea.

Sure, these other folks do it in other places but we can't do that here  because of, you know, you name it, any number of reasons.

But we systematically sort of attacked  those reasons why we couldn't do it and over time we were able to make it a reality.

And a big  and very sad part of that story is Lahaina, because there's a clear climate signal and that  huge tragedy that unfolded.

And I think when the dust settled in the immediate aftermath, we looked  at that collectively as a community and said, how do we prevent something like that from ever  happening again?

And one of the key solutions to that is improving the resource state of our  environment because there is nothing better as an insurance policy against wildfire than  an intact native ecosystem, right?

And we need to restore ecosystems across the board, not  just for wildfire.

But for floods, for droughts, for big storms, for any number of vulnerabilities  that the climate crisis will make more severe, more damaging and more frequent.

And  the science on that is super clear.

So, we have got to get ready and the  green fee's gonna help us get there.

When that Green Fee passed and having a  hand in that did you feel like that was the moment that you had talked about in that  interview making a difference in the ocean, I mean it sounds like yeah there's  a realization of that of that goal.

Yeah, I think for all of us involved in  that, there was a watershed moment in the lege where it came out of the committee vote  and we all looked around and we were like, oh my God, it's actually gonna happen.

Like we've been at this for eight, nine years and here we are and it's about  to happen.

And of course, it was a beautiful moment when Governor Green signed that bill  into law and we took a quick victory lap and then went right back to work to make sure that  its implementation is as successful as it can be.

Coming up, Jack takes us to a  place where mauka and makai meet, and the health of Hawai‘i’s ecosystem is  revealed in the waters of a single spring.

This is the Kawaikuʻi spring.

It's fresh water  that flows down all the way from the mountains.

At Kawaikuʻi Beach Park, the mountains  meet the ocean in an unexpected way, with icy fresh water rising from the  sand.

It's really flowing right here.

Yeah, it sure is.

It sure is.

Oh and I can.

This cold, you know, water from the  Koolau's, and you can really feel it.

Jack Kittinger is deeply tied to this  shoreline.

It’s where he taught his sons to surf, where he comes to  reconnect with nature and where these subtle streams show what’s possible  when Hawai‘i’s environment is cared for.

So, what does it tell you when  the water is flowing like this?

Well, the water flow from this spring  is indicative of the connection between Mauka to Makai, ridge to reef.

And this  water all comes from the mountains and that Mauka ecosystem that's up there.

So, as long as the water is flowing, we're still okay because it means that there's  still some forest intact, but it's almost certainly true that this spring was more vigorous  and strong back when native ecosystems were more intact.

So, we have some work to do to restore the  uplands and those ecosystems but as long as the spring is still running, we're still okay.

There's still you know a connection to be maintained and it also feeds the health of the  ocean this the name of Ka Wai Kuʻi means the mixing or uniting of waters so anywhere that  freshwater mixes with ocean water is usually a pretty productive area for fish and other  kinds of sea life and as long as this spring still flows into the ocean, we still have  that mixing and the health that it creates.

Hawaiʻi's natural beauty is  abundant.

It’s also very fragile.

It's really easy to lose, this ecosystem.

We sort  of take it for granted that this will always be here, that it'll always be in its current  form.

And that's just not the case.

It, it, it faces all sorts of threats from our  actions, including now climate change, which is a huge existential threat.

And  these ecosystems are resilient but they can only take so much.

And we have  to know that and we have to put an equal amount of energy into stewarding  these places because we can't lose them.

Looking out at the water, Jack  finds both perspective and purpose.

The work that we do in conservation is  very difficult and you know, overall, all the indicators are still going the  wrong way.

We are still much better at destroying nature than reviving and restoring  it.

But that is work worth doing.

And so many people here in Hawaiʻi and across the  world are engaged in that struggle.

And doing their best to save their little place  and their spot.

And we all have to do that and our kids need to be part of that if we're  gonna have any chance of turning the tide.

The lessons of conservation apply to  leadership.

Both demand resilience, and a willingness to persevere.

Sometimes being a leader is just being  persistent.

You know, it's not more complicated than that.

I remember for the Green  Fee in particular, we had a legislative session where the bill passed through both houses and  it didn't get scheduled for a conference bill.

And the whole team, myself included, were pretty  down about that.

I mean, some people were outright demoralized.

And you're gonna get a lot of  failure before you get success in any endeavor, And you have got, at some point, to mourn  the failure, learn from it, pick yourself up, dust yourself off and get your energies  back around you and push again.

And that, literally is the story of the Green Fee.

We were  a failure.

Everyone's talking about the big win.

You gotta remember, we failed for eight years  before we succeeded in getting this through.

So, you have to learn from those.

And you  have to not let yourself succumb to the, the demoralization that happens  when you fail to succeed.

And where do you find that inner  strength, where does that come from?

Well look, I work in conservation.

Like, we might  win a battle or two, but we are losing the war.

I mean, if you look at any of the data on  climate or biodiversity loss, which are the two twin crises that I believe will define our age,  it certainly will define my children's lives in fundamental ways that it didn't define mine.

Like  their lives will be fundamentally different.

But we are losing that battle at the global scale and  not losing it kind of or losing it badly and we are trying to bend that arc back.

So, you have to  take heart in the small victories and in the small wins no matter how little they may be because that  is how you build and build towards bigger success.

When the problems that you're describing are  of the nature that they are that they're so vast and they can feel so overwhelming  how do you not get overwhelmed by that and just say you know it forget it?

I know that there are people who you know of avoid stories about climate change  because they just are so demoralizing, get really depressed uh, I've talked to  climate scientists who say that there is actual depression among climate  researchers because of these issues.

How do you avoid that?

How do you not  get overwhelmed by the problem itself?

Well, I mean, it's OK to be overwhelmed by the  problem.

That's OK.

It happens all across the sector.

I see people on my team grapple with this  all the time, right.

But I'm constantly reminding them of the adage that if everyone sweeps their  front porch the whole world will be clean.

So, sweep your front porch.

You handle the part  of this problem that you're responsible for and if you are successful at that, then  that makes the next person next to you's jobs easier.

And we're all engaged in this.

We're not gonna solve it overnight.

It's a problem that took over a century to form.

Like  literally since the industrial revolution, this has become an issue.

And we have just  a couple of generations to solve it.

I mean, maybe even shorter than that but any progress  is good progress.

We cannot get trapped in what Al Gore talked about famously in an Inconvenient  Truth in this like, well, this is just too big.

We might as well just go home and give up.

That  is just not an option, right?

So, I, part of my job is to keep people focused on what they can  achieve and their part of this overall struggle.

Coming up, Jack reflects on what it  means to take up space in Hawai‘i and why his leadership is grounded in giving back.

Jack Kittinger has lived in Hawai‘i longer than  anywhere else in his life.

His sons were born here.

This place fuels his professional purpose.

Yet he says these islands are not his to claim.

I’ve always felt a special connection here.

The value system that our community has here in Hawaiʻi is very similar to the value  system in the place where I grew up.

That said, I'm not sure I'll ever be completely at home  here.

I am not from here.

I have had so many conversations with friends, including Native  Hawaiian scholars who I deeply respect about what it means to be someone like me who lives  here.

And where I've arrived is that if you're gonna take up space on indigenous lands,  take it up well.

Give back, do your part If you do that, then that is the right way to  be in a place like this.

So, in other words, I'm not sure I should be comfortable.

I should  always be pushing to give back to this community because, precisely because I'm not from here.

In  other words, you know, take up that space well.

Tell me about your leadership style  and how it's changed over time.

Mmmm Has it changed over time?

Are you the same  leader you were when you first came to Hawaiʻi?

I'd be surprised if anyone who's in a leadership  role doesn't change through time.

For one, the outside environment is changing so much  that we have to adapt, but I think coming from a Western upbringing, you know when you think of  leadership, where I grew up, it's often leading from the front and you see people that are, you  know, out in front of a crowd giving speeches and you think as a kid, that's what leadership is.

But so much of leadership here in community is people that lead so effectively from the back of  the room.

Quietly with gravity, with wisdom and of course with deep integrity and deep knowledge  to go with it.

And that has been something that, you know, if you go to any community meeting  anywhere in Hawaiʻi, you see that, right?

And it is a much different style of leadership  than is prevalent in the West and it's something that I've learned a lot from over the years  from so many people across our community.

You talked about your kids growing up in a  different environment, in a different world than the one that you grew up in.

How much  of what you do is motivated by being a dad?

Oh, I think a lot.

You know I read something  when they were young that really stayed with me and that was that if you look at an element,  a kid in elementary school now.

That something like two out of every five jobs that those kids  will hold don't exist yet.

So, think about that.

How do you prepare your child for a very different  future, including one full of innovation and all sorts of advancements in technology and  environment and any number of sectors, but also for a world that will be hotter,  drier, more conflict and quite frankly, where vulnerabilities will go up.

And I think part of my  job as a parent is to help prepare them for that.

And how do you do that?

I mean,  you're more aware than you know, the typical person about what those  scenarios could look like.

Yeah.

And given all that knowledge, what are you  doing that maybe the rest of us aren't?

Well, I'm not sure that I'm doing anything that  the rest of people aren't, or that I am doing it better for that matter, but I really do try to  focus with them on their value set and to ensure that in their upbringing that that is solid  and firm because no matter what they end up doing or what career or what kind of family  they have, that will be fundamental to who they are.

And then I think like every parent,  you're just trying to open all the doors and see which ones they step through.

I mean, the  joke in our household is that they might be the best baseball players ever.

I wouldn't know  because I never signed them up for baseball, so maybe that was a failing on my part.

But, you know, the flip side of that, the opportunities that kids here have in Hawai’i  are, you know they're numerous, right?

There's so many incredible things to get involved  with and you just try to enable that, right.

You know, we talked about this  great victory with the Green Fee, and I'm curious now, what's the next big  challenge for you?

What's the hardest thing you're facing as a leader  now, and how are you tackling it?

Hmm, that’s a great question.

It's hard,  I think, now to work in the conservation, climate, and stewardship space without feeling  like our sector is sort of under siege.

We've been on a five or 10-year growth cycle  in this space and when you're in a growth cycle there's all sorts of opportunity.

You feel like you can make more progress, more impact and really push to get further gains.

But now with the US Federal Administration pulling  out of the Paris Agreement, with funding cuts, and with so many other things, it is a  different mindset that we have to have.

It is not a mindset of opportunity, but a  mindset of we've got to dig in and we've gotta protect our gains.

And we have got to  be in a mindset of fierce resolve around this.

In other words, everyone in our sector  doesn't do it because it's easy, they do it because we're committed.

Well, this tests your  commitment and you have got to refind your center, refind your resolve and be fierce about it.

And that's a source of motivation.

And it's a different source of motivation than one that  you carry in times of opportunity and growth.

And that’s something that I’ve been trying to carry  into my discussions, trying to find for myself, but also carry it in with colleagues, with team  members that I work closely with because I think we're in for a tougher time over the next four  years than we've had over the last five or 10.

Well, it's interesting because it's basically  a battle on two fronts, right?

You have the climate itself, the changes that are happening,  the environmental piece.

And then you have the political piece.

And you're really dealing with  two very, very large issues, right, in those two and how they come together.

And so how do  you restore yourself or keep yourself grounded and motivated in that fight, knowing that the  challenges coming from both sides are monumental?

Yeah, they are.

And the climate science is  clear.

I mean, we know that we're already committed to a certain level of warming.

We are seeing that across the board, including right here in Hawaiʻi.

The political  climate, I think if you sort of person that gets demoralized by the political narrative changing  in ways that don't accrue to your values, then you just have to find a different  source of resilience because, quite frankly, that's always gonna be a battle.

To try to shift  the politics towards the value sets and solutions that will favor a more climate resilient  future, I mean that's part of what we have to do.

But that's just one part of the overall  climate environmental agenda and sector.

So, there's all sorts of roles that we all have  to play and politics is just one of them.

We always end the same, and that is to ask, what's  the best piece of advice that you ever received?

There's this famous letter from my  grandfather to my mom and her sisters, and I'm named after him, but I never knew  him because he passed away when I was 1 year old.

And he wrote this letter  to my sisters and he signed it with, don't let the bastards get you down.

And that's  become sort of an unofficial family mantra.

For maintaining resilience in the face of  whatever obstacle or burden you may carry, but it's also a little lighthearted too  which is fitting for the family I grew up in.

For Jack, resilience is at the heart of  it all.

In conservation, in leadership, and in life, don’t let ‘em get you down.

For a leader's journey, I'm Yunji de Nies.