Kākou, Hawaiʻi's town hall is sponsored by Ke Kula ʻo Kamehameha, the Office of Hawaiian Affairs, Hawaiʻi Community Foundation, and Hawaiian Native Corporation.

For generations, Hawaiians have worked to revitalize and strengthen their language, culture, and identity.

But what comes next?

What needs to be done to ensure Hawaiian ways of learning, living and being continue for generations to come?

Join Kākou, Hawaiʻi's town Hall for a discussion with Kānaka Maoli innovators across many fields.

Join us for Kākou, Hawaiians: He Ala Hou - A New Way Forward.

Starting now.

Aloha and welcome to Hawaiʻi Town Hall.

Live from the Harry Antonette Weinberg multimedia studio.

I'm Yunji de Nies.

For decades ago, Native Hawaiians were fighting to reclaim a language and culture that had been pushed to the brink.

At that time, fewer than 50 children in Hawaiʻi spoke Hawaiʻi.

Today, more than 4000 students learn and speak Hawaiian language each day, and nearly 20,000 people have some fluency in the language.

It is one of the clearest signs of an extraordinary cultural resurgence, one that now reaches into education, government, business, science and the arts.

But cultural resurgence has not erased longstanding disparities.

Native Hawaiians still live about four and a half years less than Hawaiʻi residents overall, and remain disproportionately impacted by the criminal justice system.

And today, 53% of Native Hawaiians live outside of Hawaiʻi.

More living outside of Hawaiʻi than here in their ancestral homeland.

We spoke with several Native Hawaiians living on the continent about why they left.

I lived on Oʻahu until I was seven years old.

My family and I are from Iowa.

My parents had to decide to leave because they couldn't get housing because the job salaries were too low.

They were working 2 to 3 jobs each just to make ends meet.

And they wanted a better life for us.

My son thanked me because he realizes it was a sacrifice to leave Hawaiʻi, and he realizes what opportunities it's given to him that had we stayed back.

Things probably could have gone really south for him.

I left the island of Maui in the beginning of like, the year 2004.

I want to say around there, and it was just out of sort of the basic curiosity of where I could go with my art career.

Most of the opportunities had already kind of come and gone for the island of Maui before I graduated from University of Hawaiʻi, Mānoa.

I applied to all of the big tech companies, so Apple, Microsoft, Amazon, you name it, because I wanted to be at a big tech company where innovation was happening, and I did not see that at that time, in a way, for a lot of us is that I did not see any tech innovation that was happening, that I wanted to work at, and I just didn't want to work in tourism as a Hawaiian.

All four still feel deeply connected to Hawaiʻi, whether through hula music, feather work, paddling, or just gathering with others in the diaspora.

So what does progress look like for Native Hawaiians wherever they live?

Coco means all of us.

And there are.

There is no Hawaiʻi without Hawaiians.

So tonight we explore a whole a new way forward as we confront the challenges that remain and consider what comes next.

We want to hear from you and our discussion tonight.

You can email or call in your questions.

We're also streaming live at PBS Hawaiʻi and on our YouTube page.

In our town hall, we have educators, advocates, entrepreneurs, health care leaders, an attorney, and a student.

So let's begin.

And I want to start with Haʻalilio Solomon, who is an assistant professor at UH Mānoa’s Kawaihuelani Center for Hawaiian Language.

We often talk about Hawaiian Cultural Renaissance as a success story.

From your perspective, what has changed and what hasn't?

Oh, I got to talk first.

We made a lot of progress in 40, 50 years of, revitalizing our language.

I think we need to start thinking about the next 50 years.

And, what's going to be important during that phase is ideological cohesion.

There's a lot of literature on what works and what doesn't for language.

I think we need to, we being all of us from Hawaiʻi all the way to Niue, have agreement on what the future of Hawaiian language looks like.

Sounds like, because, we could really benefit from those really kind of uncomfortable questions about, conflicting ideologies and how we can read how we can achieve more cohesion to, help us give us more momentum.

Okay.

Thank you for that.

Kepa Barrett Keyes grew up in Hawaiian language immersion and now works in sustainability and ʻāina based learning.

What possibilities do you see for young Hawaiians today that perhaps were not possible a generation or two ago?

Sure.

That's a great question.

I think so.

I went to in Pearl city, and something that I think about a lot is kūpuna.

She was a man that actually came to IO every week, and she was born at a time that Hawaiian language was discouraged.

And she talked a lot about the pain that she grew up not being able to speak.

And for my sister and I who attended, we didn't experience that same pain.

But we understand that the pain now has a purpose.

And one of the things that I'm sure a lot of people have seen is recently in the entertainment world, chief of War was recently featured.

So now Hawaiʻi has momentum in the entertainment space as well as the education space.

More than anything, I see Hawaiʻi becoming more normalized in other spaces as well.

Outside of education and entertainment, we see ourselves getting into the spaces that we didn't necessarily see, examples like us growing up.

If you think about the what was talking about the first cohort of kids that graduated in maybe 99 or what, 45 today.

So we're still pretty young cohort of Hawai'i speakers after that initial bottleneck of a lot of kūpuna that didn't have the opportunity to pass on in the way that they wanted to.

And so now we have a new cohort of speakers that are now entering into decision making institutions that can create changes in economic and environmental opportunities for our community and our haumana who are alive today.

Thank you for that.

Paige Okamura supports community led native initiatives across the Pacific and host Hawaiʻi Kulāiwi on Hawai'i Public Radio.

Paige, where are Hawaiian communities making progress that perhaps the rest of us don't necessarily always notice or see?

Oh one communities are growing in so many different ways.

For me, in the work that I do, I see them growing their capacity within their organizations, their nonprofits, their communities.

I think also, as much as we don't like to dwell on negative things, I think the recent, you know, floods and disasters that the communities have suffered really shows the strength of our communities when they come together.

So I think our communities have always been strong, but I think the ways that they have found their paths, and their strengths have been just a variety.

It's like, you know, endless.

So they're growing, even if you may not see it, you might not see it on TV.

But, they're doing really great work.

And I think it shows in all the progress we've made.

I want to turn to Olin Lagon, who's a tech entrepreneur whose work connects innovation with community needs.

You know, Olin, I was really struck by the speaker there that you heard at the end stage saying that she had to leave Hawaiʻi to get those tech opportunities that she wanted.

When you look at Hawaiʻi's economy right now.

Where do you see the greatest opportunity for Native Hawaiians?

First, shout out to sage like, she's really talented, so I'm glad she came on this show.

I have so much hope because the next generation is going to look at ownership, because I really see, like I grew up under a labor model, like my entire family.

We were laborers on our own homelands.

But this next generation of opportunities to own ʻāina, to own our food productions, to own our industries and our commerce and our finance systems.

And so I think there's a lot of hope there.

And I see a lot of progress we're making.

Okay.

Thank you.

Let's turn to Rick Barbosa now, who co-founded Hui Kū Maoli Ola, a business rooted in growing and conserving native Hawaiian plants.

Rick, what does your experience taught you about building economic opportunity while caring for the land?

For us, it kind of came.

It's there's so much room for growth.

Not to make a pun out of it, but but you know, we it seems kind of ironic that we're growing Hawaiian plants in Hawaiʻi, but Hawaiʻi is completely inundated with non-native plants.

And in order to maintain our cultural integrity, we have to surround ourselves with our plants and that help develop our culture.

So because there's so much area for us to kind of reclaim ʻāina, our company tagline is Transforming land back to ʻāina.

And so.

We we always look at competition as a good thing.

So we always try to encourage people to grow native plants, even if it is, you know, a competition with us.

But there's so much room for growth.

Okay.

Thank you.

I want to turn to Malia Akutagawa, who is an attorney and associate professor of law and Hawaiian study.

She's joining us from Moloka'i tonight via zoom.

Malia, from your work with communities, where do Hawaiians have a meaningful voice in shaping their future?

And where do you see that voice still missing?

For for me, I do a lot of I know or land back kind of work and on Molokai.

With the Heritage Trust, we stand to acquire a third of our island, which is 56,000 acres.

And we're very close to that acquisition.

So to me, that's an exciting opportunity for Kānaka to have more control.

It really is, to me, aware of looking at air and sovereignty being very self-determined and and able to, have more choices in how we manage our and govern our people.

In the other part of your question was, what do you think we have lost?

Well, what's still missing?

What's still missing on?

Are you specifically, you know, our economy, we do things differently.

We don't rely on tourism.

We are number one.

Industry is agriculture.

So, I think, you know, we have experience on the island.

A lot of people leaving, our young people leaving and might not necessarily come back.

So I think for us, we want to provide a place and a space for them to thrive.

And so that's why we're looking at land back right now.

So that we can address those issues and maybe even bring people from the diaspora back to Hawaiʻi.

I'm sure we're going to be talking about that a lot tonight.

Thank you so much.

Another person who works on Moloka'i and throughout the state is Dr.

Landon Opunui.

And he leads Nā Puʻuwai, a Native Hawaiian health care system serving rural community communities.

You know, we started talking a little bit about making reference to the health disparities at the top, shorter life span.

And we know that there are other metrics that show that there can be poor health outcomes for Native Hawaiians.

What does a healthier future look like for Native Hawaiians, and how do we get there?

I think philosophically, it's important to ask the question, what is the root cause of our health disparities?

For us to unravel and strategize how to navigate our way to better Hawaiian health.

So Native Hawaiians have and continue to suffer from great loss.

Loss of land, loss of culture, loss of identity.

And the antidote to loss is connection.

So we know that culture is protective.

And if we can be more effective at addressing Native Hawaiian health more comprehensively in a culturally responsive way, addressing all domains of health and helping to redesign the systems and the structures that create the conditions for thriving.

Then we're on our way.

Oh, I love that.

Culture is protective.

That is beautiful.

Thank you for that.

Noelani Sagapolutele is a clinical social worker and founder of a collective focus on culturally connected mental health care, which is another piece of the health care puzzle.

What do you wish more people understood about the well-being of Hawaiian families today?

I think I wish that more people knew about the well-being of Hawaiian families is, gosh, so many of us already come with such huge strengths.

No matter what part of the island from your from.

In my practice, typically I focus on rural, underserved, historically marginalized areas.

I've been working on the white and I coast Kapolei for the last 21 years.

And that's the people.

That's my people that I choose to work with because I am from those communities as well.

And so what I, what I wish people knew is, is that there's so much richness when everybody else is telling you all you're from this town or you're from there, or at like, no zeros, right?

But I'm just going to speak of white and I, specifically because I always tell people and why and I you're going to see what you want to see.

You're going to see some of the drugs, some of the poverty, some of the most, you know, the most, I don't know, incarceration, what have you the violence.

But when you also go to Wani, you're going to see some of the most resourceful, most, most resourceful people, most beautiful sunsets, most generous, kind people.

And so what I wish people knew, and which is my platform, is to start normalizing that Hawaiians, that you are great and that you have a purpose in this.

I know when for so long.

It was shame to be Hawaiian and trying to flip the script and say, it's not it's exact opposite.

And so whether you are we all talked about before your way, where are you in school.

So where you're coming home, Hawaiian or public school?

Hawaiian or Hawaiian or different?

We're all Hawaiian, and that is richness in itself.

And there's no matter where you come from, there is no standard of being Hawaiian.

To be Hawaiian is to be Hawaiian and to find and like Landon said it's just to find connection.

Wherever that's at, wherever your is is at, follow that lineage and go all the way back.

You're going to find richness and to be proud of that, because we need to be proud of our kūpuna.

They got us this far.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Hiʻiaka Kaimiloa Aipia-White Eagle, is a student at hālau puamana and a paddler.

When you imagine your future, what do you hope you'll be able to build here in Hawaii?

First, I want to just touch upon everyone here tonight listening to everybody else's introductions.

I hope that you all know that all of your jobs that you've taken on, all of the that you have taken on is, given my generation, so many opportunities going to Hālau Kū Māna Hawaiian Public Charter School, I've had the opportunities to communicate with so many different community partners and hearing all of your guys stories and your guys, I just want you to know that those opportunities are shown in our Hawaiian charter schools, and that I'm so excited to be able to be here and hopefully inspire more moku to send your keiki to Hawaiian charter schools.

And for my generation to go out.

And once you Puka kula to go on to college, go on to broader studies.

And for all those who have found their way away from Hawaiʻi to come home and to share all of your ika that you've gathered with my generation.

Thank you for that.

And you know, this idea of coming home is really what we asked a lot of the folks on the continent about.

So I want to bring back those voices again at the top of the broadcast, we did hear why for Native Hawaiians left Hawaiʻi, they eat shared how finding opportunity elsewhere can also come with a deeply personal cost.

Take a look.

I moved to a white suburb.

So I was like one of three brown kids in my school.

So it was very, very isolating.

And so I had so much of a severance from Ina from from my lineage, from who I was, from my own identity.

And, for most of my life, I carried a deep shame and did not feel wine enough, which is something that a lot of Kānaka off island, deal with and, and grief.

A lot of us have moved away for career growth, for socio economic benefits, right?

Being able to be exposed globally, the easier to travel other places.

The the other side of the coin is that you do lose a lot of the culture, right?

I think as a Hawaiian, as an indigenous person, you always will be aching.

It's it's like a like any Hawaiian love song or longing for a lover or longing, longing for a land relaxing.

Right?

I'm so grateful that I grew up my entire life in Hawaiʻi.

Aside from college and military training, I am so grateful for that because it's formed me to who I am today.

I'm also so grateful that my son has grown up in Hawaiʻi for the first 14 years of his life, because it has made him who he is today, and he is so proud to be Hawaiian.

If he remains on the continent, his future Keiki may be born on the continent and not live and have the same childhood that he took for granted.

We take Hawaiian history, we have Hawaiian culture, we take ukulele classes.

You know, we have Hawaiian language.

His Katie.

That might be lost in a sense.

You know what is what you without native Hawaiians, right?

There is a certain level of sadness because again, when we talk about, well, when I bring up that, genealogy is paramount in all things that we do, right?

Like, we quite literally have genealogical connection to the land.

So the land without a while it will survive and be fine, as much as there's a sadness for that, are living elsewhere and longing for home.

It's the same thing with the land.

Such rich perspectives I want to key in to, Well, a lot of it.

But Kepa, let's go to you first.

We know that some of your family does live on the continent.

What is that distance meant for you?

So I have an older sister.

I have two older sisters.

One went to.

She's two years older than me and then another one is 15 years older than me.

So she was just a generation before the systems really started.

And she's lived in Los Angeles, New York, and is now currently in Murfreesboro, Tennessee.

She also has three kids of her own.

All three of them were born there on the continent.

But what I will say is that as much as there has been a loss, I think that what our parents did right is that they made sure that even though our our keiki, our nieces and nephews are born there, they have an anti and uncle that know who they are.

And because now we can be a resource for our keiki and our nephews, they're not going to hopefully question as much as them being Hawaiian enough or not, because we're going to tell them that they're Hawaiian enough, whether they know.

Hawaiʻi or not, whether they have any knee or not.

That's a narrative that is harmful.

And I want all Native Hawaiians, regardless of where they are, whether they're my family or not, to know that they're Hawaiian enough.

Okay.

And there's a the audience is starting to participate, and we love you.

It's calling in and writing in.

So thank you for that.

And I would love it if you would take this, because you did say Hawaiian is Hawaiian in the in the last question.

And this person is asking who gets to define what it means to be Hawaiian for people who are Hawaiian by ancestry but may not speak, practice hula or hula, or participate in other visible cultural traditions.

Is there room for them to practice their Hawaiian identity in their own way, without being made to feel they are not Hawaiian enough?

And that also dovetails with what Chris was saying about the shame that she felt living on the continent and not feeling Hawaiian enough.

So, you know, to responding to Chris and also to this caller tonight who gets to define what it means to be Hawaiian.

I think each individual person defines what it means to be Hawaiian.

And in my practice I just say you do you.

If you go back to our ancestors, not everybody was skilled.

Not everybody was skilled farmer.

We each had our own little.

We were skilled, we were skilled.

And maybe 1 or 2 things.

At least that's what I think.

At least that's what my family is.

And so you define what it means to be Hawaiian for you.

And I'm 45.

Some of us up here are that generation.

And it was I went to come home and we never we never had to take Hawaiʻi.

We had our LTC back then.

It's a very it looks very, very different.

And so, I never had to weave.

And some of our classmates are like, did we learn anything in our generation?

And I think the consensus is not that much.

And so for the people out there, like the person who wrote in, is do what feels good to you because I guarantee you, if you're like, I could get on board with hula, I bet you somewhere down the line there's some hula in your genealogy, because I feel like your kūpuna always guides you.

So if you're Mahi, i.e.

if you're a speaker, if you're an activist, I guarantee you there's some kind of activist in your line, right?

If you're the peacemaker, there's some kind of peacemaker.

And so you just kind of got a I feel like you have to listen to you and to be true to who you are and to run your own race.

And that's it.

And that's what I do in my practice is just help people to be like, it doesn't even matter.

You just run your own race, and maikaʻi.

Oh, I see you nodding over there.

I'm curious.

What how do you respond to the caller, to the caller, and also to what Chris said about that shame that she felt of not feeling Hawaiian enough.

I really appreciate the discussion going in this direction.

I think, destigmatize in the diaspora is very important in the next few decades of, of the future of us as lāhui.

We are.

Hawaiʻi is the only Pacific island nation that has that kind of stigma.

If you're a Samoan born in Monterey, California, or Tongan born in Salt Lake City, Utah, you're no less Tongan or someone than the folks back in your ancestral homeland.

So why does that exist for Hawaiians?

And that's not a rhetorical question.

Yeah, all.

And what do you think?

Why does that exist for Hawaiians?

I mean, I had some sadness of hearing this because like my, the my grandmother lived in Jackson, Mississippi, pure Hawaiian.

And she was the first person I went to, like, my mom put me on a plane six years old by myself, got there.

And that was the first, like, Hawaiian that I spent time with.

And so I had to go away to experience that.

And so I guess the sadness is more like a bitter sweetness, because I think diaspora is, is a, an emergency.

Like there's just too many Hawaiians out there, but it's a huge opportunity for folks to come back.

I'm blown away by your humility, like just hearing you make the call out to make sure, like our kuleana, like send our kids to those schools.

And like I was it was very, very inspiring to hear that.

So yeah, well, he will give you an opportunity to respond.

I mean, when you've heard all those voices from the continent and knowing that a lot of people of your generation may be considering leaving, perhaps for college and may not make the way their way back, I mean, how do you how do you take in what you've heard from them tonight?

What is it to be Hawaiian?

To be Hawaiian is action.

Something that I've learned that is, you know, here in Hawaiʻi, there's there's so many issues going on with tourism, with the the militarization of Hawaiʻi, with, you know, pollution.

And there's so many things that need to be done.

And that doesn't necessarily mean that it's only things that can be done here in Hawaiʻi.

You know, we can't always be so here.

I think that whole aim needs to also branch out internationally, getting the opportunity through paddling to travel abroad and meet some of our other siblings from across Polynesia and get to go to other states, has really brought in my horizons to how we can grow as a as a kingdom.

Here at hello, they teach us about air.

Like Auntie Malia said, independence, what sovereignty is.

And as a Hawaiian, it's, you know, as the next generation.

It's my kuleana to find a way where, you know, we can work back to self-governance, I think.

So that's one of the biggest things that we learn at school.

Okay.

I want to key into something else that Ian said he spoke about not only Hawaiians missing the land, but the land itself missing its people.

And, Rick, since you work so closely with the land and then we'll go to Malia next on this.

But, what did that bring up for you?

You know, one of the things that he had mentioned was, that you kind of have Hawaiʻi without Hawaiians, and I'm probably going to get a lot of flak for this, but Hawaiʻi was Hawaiʻi for millions of years before any person came here.

And once our ancestors got here, we started to change ʻāina and things started to get worse later.

But.

In order to have that, that self-identity, we got to be able to connect to the original state of our I know, or try to, because right now, you know, so much of it has been changed that we can't connect to it, you know, or we're connecting to it, but we're thinking that we're connecting to it in a Hawaiian sense, but we're connecting to things that aren't Hawaiian plant wise, you know?

And so for me, trying to show people that a lot of the plants that we grew up with, that we think are Hawaiian, that we identify as Hawaiian, that aren't is part of that growth and part of that understanding of how you can be more Hawaiian.

So but yeah, it's a it's a touchy subject.

But I think we got to just got a, you know, a lot more true that.

Yeah.

Well we're going to go deep tonight and we all build trust in this room.

And and with those of you at home and also of course with Malia on Molokai and Malia, given the work that you're doing with reclaiming that land on Molokai and the efforts there to to acquire, you know, all of that land.

What do you make of Ian Ian's comment that, you know, Hawaiʻi, that the land misses the people as much as perhaps the people miss the land?

I totally resonate with that mana.

You know, and I've had a lot of thoughts on this, given that I'm a professor and, some of my home are in the diaspora.

They asked me to serve on their, Masters and PhD committees, and I. I feel the sense of loss in them.

And for me, then even sometimes they might feel like they throw away Hawaiians.

And I said, no, the bones of your ancestors are in this land and don't, don't have this sort of self-hatred because you're dishonoring your ancestors.

And if if other living in Hawaiʻi disparage you because maybe you less than you have, you have to stand strongly, for your kūpuna because from we're Indian DNA.

That's that's the manner in the UK that flows through your veins.

And I remember kumu hula Mark Kealiʻi Hoʻomalu talking about if you, if you're aware from Hawaiʻi then then your ʻāina is your keynote, your body, you know, and if we think about our genealogy, you know, that we're embedded in.

I know that makes sense.

My experience to is, you know, one one of my homeowners said, you know, I still have a sense of what do I do with that?

And, I said, you're gonna you're going to find your own way, like your ancestors will will guide you.

And if you look at, the fact that we are wayfinder, we are voyagers.

When you look at the new, journey.

It was the excellence of of our people, and it touched the hearts of many around the world.

So when I think of our adventurous kūpuna that went on ships and did whaling and mixed with, you know, the First Nations people, and you have places like in Washington, when I where I used to live when I was in my undergrad called Columbia, you know, there is that that connection and we are ocean people, so we shouldn't feel bad when we hold a whole other parts of the world.

And another student of mine, he, he has Ali blood embedded in and he talked about he did his whole PhD on land back from Molokai and that was a makana to our people.

And he wants to come back home.

And he, he co-founded this global land restoration fund to fund indigenous land back around the world, including our including Molokai.

So our our people on the continent and around the world are so precious to me.

Thank you for that.

Yeah.

Paige, I want to go back to the second half of this caller's question.

Because I'm curious to explore it a little bit deeper.

Is there room for people to practice their Hawaiian identity in their own way without being made to feel they are not Hawaiian enough?

If they don't paddle, if they don't feather make feather lei, or if they don't do lay at all, you know is there?

What is the what is the openness to that?

Yeah, I think there's room for everybody.

And actually in this discussion and with what the caller has said, you know, the diaspora talks about the longing they feel.

But I think we can feel that longing.

And we're still home here.

I feel that longing, you know, for the community, for, for the while I grew up in, it's already changed so much.

So we all have that longing.

That's how we all find our path, right?

Is we feel the loss, and we long for either the nostalgia of it all or the connection to be sort of rebuilt.

But I think what's important, I think when we talk about how we define ourselves as identity and, you know, language is a big vein.

It's a big part of it, of the discussion today, which is wonderful.

And sometimes it feels like certain things are not enough, or that only things, certain things define our identity.

But I think if we think about how reciprocal our plena is when we claim our Hawaiian identity, we got to put back into the community, because you can just stand on the side and say, oh, I'm Hawaiian.

I think our community recognizes each other as Hawaiians, and we're all Hawaiian on this panel.

But I don't want to also, you know, forget our cultural practices of hānai, you know, so I think part of claiming that identity or feeling Hawaiian is to to, like Malia said, follow the longing.

Where does it take you?

Right?

And if that's your kūpuna pulling you back, then you should follow that path like that's your that's how you're going to hoʻokele yourself to what your practice is going to be.

I think it's hard because we're so used to defining hula, making, lei feather work, all important cultural things.

But hey, maybe tech is your practice, and if that's your practice, then, you know, ground yourself in your language and your culture so you can bring that to your practice.

I think there is room, but there's definitely a you've got to find your path.

To what?

Where your longing is going to lead you back home.

Dr.

Opunui, I know you personally.

And so I'm just curious, you know, you're a father of young children.

How are you teaching them on what it means to grow up?

And how are you defining Hawaiian, what it means to be a Hawaiian for them?

There's a lot of different identity.

And I think part of the journey, which is a very therapeutic and healing one, is to find and to stand firm, to be part in the truth of who you are.

And Hawaiians are not a homogeneous people, and I think there is power when we can cultivate the gifts that we inherit and acquire over the course of our life, to be of greatest service to our community, to our Lahi.

And when you can find the the path where we can foster growth in our students, in our children, and at every stage of life, and combine that with a meaningful way of which we can be be of service and to be of greatest contribution to society is something that I, as a father, would be very proud to see my children blossom into.

Let's bring back those voices from the continent.

We know that leaving Hawaiʻi is not only a story of loss.

The people we spoke with are also building community, sharing Hawaiian culture, and finding other ways to contribute.

Here's how they see the future.

I would hope that people back home do realize that we want to continue to spread aloha and educate others here about our culture, our language, our history.

We want to continue.

We're not forgetting about Hawaiʻi.

We want to expand and grow.

We have to remember, like our people have been like great voyagers since time immemorial.

We've always been a people that traveled and lived elsewhere and experienced things.

Our canoe plants, our canoe plants come from elsewhere, you know.

But then we we brought them to Hawaiʻi and they were able to thrive.

What makes us think as Kānaka, back home in Hawaiʻi, right, that we're not going to thrive elsewhere, like, wauke or kalo, you know, that was brought to Hawaiʻi.

I think if you want to discuss the future of Hawaiʻi, you have to look at the Kānaka who live away from home.

If we get up, if we get caught up in Hawaiʻi is only a place we are so far removed from our news from Hawaiʻi.

Hawaiʻi is no longer just the islands anymore.

53% of us live away from home.

That is a majority.

And that's going to continue to grow year after year.

And so the future of Hawaiʻi is on the continent, in our diaspora.

Kānaka I hear stories of impact from Hawaiians about our kindness, our generosity.

I was in Cape Town, South Africa, and I was treated so well because someone had an experience with a Hawaiian who graciously, you know, gave them dinner and housed them for a week.

Right.

These are just not these are not isolated stories from people from a different cultures generations is that we've touched the hearts from so many people from around the world.

And I think the world where we're at right now needs more of us to demonstrate our values as Hawaiians.

We need to continue to lead in these values because we, the world needs it.

So, Olin, I'd love for you to respond to what Chris said.

This idea that Hawaiʻi is no longer just the islands than any more, that the future is in the diaspora.

And this is not to create an in Hawaiʻi versus out of Hawaiʻi kind of debate, but really just exploring that idea that given how many people live outside of Hawaiʻi, how do we how do we sort of reconcile that and think about the future?

Yeah, it's real for me.

Our son's in college right now on the continent, and I want them to come home.

And what will bring him home is his groundings.

Like we took on to take care of loʻi.

So we we grow kalo.

We've learned how to do that as a family.

And him participating in that.

I think some of those kinds of things, that it just takes effort on our part to make sure that we just ground ourselves, we ground our kids.

And so that when it comes time for them to make that decision, they can make that decision that works for them when it's ready.

So I have hope that he will come back and so will so many others.

Are saving seats for folks.

Yeah, I hope that we are.

And how how do you take what Chris said?

You know, how do you look at that?

Yeah.

I'm not I hope we don't envision that Hawaiʻi and Hawaiians and the who can be spread across the continent.

I hope we, focus our efforts on bringing back bringing Hawaiians back to our Kulāiwi.

That's really important.

But like Malia was saying earlier, my father is from Molokai, and he lives.

He's been living on the in wildlife since the, since his teenage years.

I would love to see more.

Not just how he's come back here to Honolulu or Oʻahu, but, Hawaiians go back to neighbor islands.

Can I can I ask?

Yes.

Go ahead.

Yeah.

Thank you for bringing that up, because I think a lot of people who move away come from families who were seeking opportunities elsewhere in the first place, and maybe a lot of the people that went, they were seeking opportunities for themselves.

And I'm kind of interested to just share my personal story.

So after I left, graduated from Kamehameha Schools, and then I chose to go away for college, not because I wanted to move away, but because I was just curious.

And I think that's a big part of our law, is that we are curious people, and that's a big part of our value system, as Aloha is ever encompassing.

But because I was so rooted in who I was and in the Hawaiʻi that my kūpuna right, and that my mākua were able to gift to me, the deeper my roots were, the further I felt I could go.

And so I was able to study in Southern California, and I actually studied abroad in Italy.

And because I was fluent in my language, it was easier for me to learn another foreign language.

And I feel like a lot of people forget that language acquisition.

Right?

Old Hawaiʻi is the valley that feeds the of our.

And when we think about ʻōlelo as the valley, where does the white go?

Right.

Where is your e?

Is it in social work?

Is it in medicine?

Is it in tech?

What is your cultivation?

And so the more that Hawaiʻi is expanded, the more that we'll be able to agree on certain things.

That is necessary for Hawaiians, whether they're here in Hawaiʻi or not.

But again, the more rooted Kānaka are here in Hawaiʻi, in our language and in our practices, the further people can go away and know that they'll be able to contribute back to Hawaiʻi one day.

Yeah, I guess Paige, I'm curious, you know, can Hawaiian communities grow stronger outside of Hawaiʻi while also helping to strengthen Hawaiʻi itself?

Like, how do we make sure that the voices for the folks on the continent feel like they're included?

Because that one, you know, in doing these interviews and having these conversations, a lot of it felt like, don't forget about us.

That was really sort of like the spirit that I felt in a lot of that discussion.

So how do we make sure that there is that connection?

You know, I know that that's such a hard thing to do when you're physically so separated.

And I think sometimes, you know, us as Hawaiians, we can be a little bit ethnocentric, too, because we are part of a much broader Pacific, and we are physically separated the farthest from the rest of our, our Oceania nations.

So sometimes we get a little bit, you know, sort of, you know, a little bit focused on ourselves.

But I think it does, unfortunately, when you are far away, require a little bit more effort.

And for me, I'm a language person.

I think we are identified by our language.

It's tied to our our identity and our national consciousness.

And so, like Kepa said, the more that we start to speak the same language that is ours, the more we're going to start to see.

And it doesn't mean we're all going to someday, you know, Kumbaya and get along.

We can have differences.

We can understand where that comes from.

I do a lot of my work.

I look at what our kūpuna were saying in order to figure out how we're going to move forward.

In 1918, there's an article written in the cocoa and it talks about, you know, the author is sort of lamenting the loss of language already, and he's saying there's a generation of keiki that are speaking English, their parents, this is speaking English.

And he literally writes he or she, they write, it's as if their skin is turning white because they're not speaking our language anymore.

And we talk like then has traveled the world and learned so many different languages.

I think what is something that nobody can take away from you is your language.

So if you're living in, you know, Las Vegas, if you're living in New York, they're Hawaiians in Germany, you know, if you learn your language, it's something that nobody can take away from you.

And then you're adding to this body and the movement that has pushed us so far.

And we're still, you know, we still need that momentum.

And normalization can only happen when we have it.

The whole nation got to be speaking the same language.

You know, you said we're not going to sing Kumbaya.

And Dr.

Opunui you said that, you know that there can be disagreements still.

And so there's a there's a question here.

Do you think there's too much infighting between Hawaiians?

Is this a barrier to progress as a people?

I think at the root of conflict is a is a real or perceived misalignment in values and priorities.

So I think we need to have some greater alignment over where we are going as a people and to shift the conversation in a very different direction.

A question that I would pose is, can we leverage the diaspora?

To our advantage as a pathway for greater self-determination?

And one last thing that I would add, as a byproduct of the diaspora, myself, as a brother of a older sister who is stationed in Naples, Italy, and a brother who's a pilot who bounces back and forth between Seattle and Las Vegas.

We can flow far from the stream, but we never lose our source.

Our genealogy lives within us.

Hiya!

I'm going to read a couple of comments from folks, and then I'd love for you to respond and thank you.

Auntie Carmi in Milan says the diaspora has been going on since World War two, and people moved off island and never came back.

If the younger generation is moving to the continent, how can they truly learn Hawaiian culture and practices?

If they really love the land here?

They need to live here to fight and preserve their culture and their land.

This person is saying, I understand why people move away and at some socioeconomic it is necessary and beneficial, but I applaud those who can stay and do stay home to build, develop and grow the hui.

And then last person says, yes, how can we bring home those who wish to return to the island?

So hearing some longing not only from the people who are not here, but from the people who are here, who miss miss their brothers and sisters, you know, away from home.

How do you how do you respond to all of this?

Speaking to all the keiki out there who live in Hawaiʻi, who don't live in Hawaii?

Something that we're so fortunate with my generation is that, you know, ‘ike is like at the tip of our fingers.

You know, everyone has a phone nowadays.

Everyone has an iPad, everyone has a computer.

And, you know, there's so much ‘ike that's being transferred over on to this tech.

And it's just it's amazing, you know, that we're taking old palapala and we're uploading that, you know, there's so many resources like how, that we can go on to and learn about our different Hawaiian cultural practices.

And I think that's something that, you know, our generation takes, grand takes for granted.

You know, back in the day, they had to go to the library and read books.

And my cous, they're always telling us, you know, like, use the tech that we have nowadays to learn.

So, you know, even if you're out of the state, there's still that opportunity to learn about your Hawaiian cultural practices.

Yes.

It's maybe hard to get out into the field if you're living on the continent.

You know, there's not a lot of patches, but, you know, build yourself a garden.

You know, you can learn about sustainability, and sustainability is so many different things, you know, all around the world.

And I think for the who talked about moving away because they didn't have these opportunities like in the tech industry, you know, and I can say that yes, in Hawaiʻi were lacking in some of these degrees and some of these studies that I know that a lot of my classmates want to pursue, you know, and design.

And I, I support all haumana who want to go away for school.

I think that the important part is that all of these moku who go away and you get so skilled in whatever your job is, is come back to Hawaiʻi and make those spaces for our generation, you know, open, open tech companies here in Hawaiʻi that me and my friends can go and study at, you know, focus on mental health, learn about that out out of Hawaiʻi and then bring it home so we don't feel like we need to go away from home to learn about these things.

I love that call to action.

There's some very interesting questions here, and honestly, the ones I'm about to read could be their own.

So just keep in mind that we're about the halfway point.

And so we want to stay on task.

But Malia, I'd love for you to lead us off and why?

And I says, should Hawaiian children be pledging allegiance to America while learning about our illegal overthrow?

So, like I said, it's it's own show, but we're going to take some of these on.

Should Hawaiians who pledging allegiance in America, given the invasion and the overthrow, what role should Native Hawaiians have in the current U.S.

government?

For example, can Native Hawaiians participate in institutions like Congress while also pursuing ideas of Hawaiian sovereignty?

Are those goals fundamentally in conflict?

Malia, you're the law professor.

I would love for you to take this on.

So I look to the wisdom of our ali'i when they saw the tide changing, like Prince Kuhio, he's like, my people need to be on ʻāina again.

I'm seeing my people suffer.

So I'm going to go to U.S.

Congress and I won't.

I won't convince them to create the Hawaiian Homes Commission Act.

You have, already trust, you know, schools.

Queen, Queen Kapiʻolani, Children's Medical Center for mothers and my mothers and children.

You have, Queen Liliʻuokalani Children's center for orphaned children.

Our Ali were very wise.

They said, okay, I'm going to use this, Western, law to the benefit of our people because our Rose Ali is to take care of our people.

So as an attorney, I have to utilize the tools at my disposal of.

I personally want independence, but it's hard.

And the problems are now.

So why why would I allow why would I put myself on a bystander, you know, and do nothing?

No, I have to do, I have I, I gotta do something with the life that I have.

And so, you know, I've worked within state, county, federal frameworks.

And then I think maybe the culmination of my work is, is I know where it's like, okay, some sometimes I get so upset with these, oppressive laws, maybe we just got to own the land.

And that's pretty close to to air.

So you got to be strategic, you know, and as a people, we're very adaptive, you know, and we gotta use that ingenuity that add up adaptive and, innovation because we are a living culture.

We didn't stop with, you know, our ancient days, we continually we continuing to live and thrive and struggle and overcome challenges.

And that's our right.

You know, we're not a museum culture.

We're not extinct.

So we got to find all kind ways to take care of each other.

Thank you so much for that.

How can you respond to that as well?

This idea can Native Hawaiians participate in institutions like Congress while also pursuing ideas of sovereignty, or are those goals fundamentally in conflict?

Sure.

Malia referenced Prince Kūhiō.

That's a good example.

King Kamehameha the Third quickly when setting up his cabinet.

He was getting flak and criticism for appointing holy government members, but he told them they needed to teach us.

And then then his positions would go to Hawaiians.

So, yeah, I think how I should absolutely be.

And they are in those positions.

Okay.

We've been talking a lot about Hawaiians.

Of course, that is the focus of the show.

But, you know, we live in a community where there are a lot of people who are not Hawaiian and have to live side by side.

So what responsibilities do you think that non Hawaiians have in this culture and in this conversation about moving Hawaiians forward?

Rick, we'll start with you.

I think they can play a good role with kōkua, you know, but not necessarily leading the way.

You know, right now, when it comes to ʻāina, the majority of our most endangered species are being overrun by government institutions or science based institutions that don't have people of Hawaiian ancestry in the majority of the of the workforce, you know, doing that.

And to me, that's got to change.

And in fact, I think the that government alone is not enough.

And we're depending too much on them to make the change, to make things better.

And we got to take all of that into our own hands.

But where they can, is with, you know, maybe technology or with ideas that could help assist us in achieving our goals.

But other than that, we're pretty good.

No, I Lani, I'm curious on your thoughts.

What what is the responsibility of of non Hawaiians to the native Hawaiian community in helping to improve the future?

God, I don't even know if I'm the right ones.

The answer this question.

I do think.

Native Hawaiians should be should be leading.

If you if you can be of Hawaiʻi.

But to be native Hawaiian, there's something special that only you will understand as being Native Hawaiian.

The way you feel, the way you perceive things, the way you roll, the way you kind of move throughout the earth.

It's it's something special.

And there could be people who have grown up here all their lives and we, you know, love, love them.

And some of my family.

Right.

But to be Native Hawaiian, there's there's some nuances that you'll only get.

So I, I do think by leaders who are native Hawaiian should be at the forefront of, of leading.

And like many of them, many of our panelists said, we people who are not Native Hawaiian can definitely kākoʻo, because I am going to go back to we have some of this conversation is my my daughter and I just read the book Kamehameha because it is a book about our in our backyard of North Kohala, Hawaiʻi Islands.

And I didn't even know the author.

I here was my kumu at Kamehameha, Kumu Kawika, I think is that's how we got called Kumu Kawika.

But he is not Native Hawaiian, so I hear I find wrong, I apologize, but so beloved and wrote me a book that taught my daughter.

How so?

I don't know, it's like a I don't know, I'm kind of the middle of the road.

I do think Native Hawaiian should be leading the charge in and taking control of our future.

But at the same time, there's wonderful people out there who also do incredible things.

And we learned incredible things through the book Kamehameha.

And so, yeah, sorry, my answer was neither here nor there, but no.

And it shows the shows the tension between those two thoughts.

Kepa I mean, what are your thoughts?

Should Hawaiian children be pledging allegiance to America while learning about our legal overthrow?

So that's a really good question.

And it always comes back to a right, like self-determination.

But I do want to actually answer what you were asking no earlier, because I think the main thing for non Hawaiians is to understand that what's good for native Hawaiians is often good for Hawaiʻi in general, because if you think about all of the things that you were talking about, all of the statistics of where we're at socioeconomically health wise, indicators wise, if Hawaiians are improving, right, that means the ecosystem around us is improving.

Therefore, the ecosystem for all people of Hawai'i is improving.

Something that I'll share a world leader had will remain nameless, has shared with with me and other leaders here.

We asked him what was it like growing up here in Hawaiʻi and obviously being able to lead in the world stage and then vice versa?

What is something that that he could, you know, offer to us in terms of our EQ?

But ultimately, here in Hawaiʻi, proximity is power because we live on islands, we see each other and we see people who are different from us more frequently than people who live on the continent.

And there's a lot of power in there if we stay curious.

So that is what I believe is important, because when people it's not my not to tell you what you should or should not do with your keiki, but it is my to stay curious about why you choose to do those things.

And if we can stay curious more often than we can pass judgment, then I think that's where we can seek a lot more understanding with each other.

The comments are rolling in and I really appreciate it.

And I want to get to Moani from Pūpūkea, who says, we lost so much in so many ways.

I live in the country.

We are inundated with tourists.

I go to town for a doctor.

I see high rises.

I don't recognize my city.

I feel left out.

I appreciate the comments of Hawaiians living in the States.

I don't feel included.

Paige, I would love for you to share your thoughts with what is shared tonight.

I mean, you and I live on the same side of the island.

I would say public is even more, you know, sort of disconnected.

You got one road up and that's the only one to bring you down.

You know, yes, we are living in a time where things are rapidly changing.

I never thought about this before, but when I was growing up, the sugar plantation in Waialua was still running.

Closed down when I was little.

And I don't think any of us ever thought that we'd be in a time where we didn't think about what was going to happen when the big landowners decided to sell off the land.

I don't I don't think we I ever thought about that growing up.

So now we're in this position where now they're trying to offload all this land that's no longer making them money.

That's where a lot of at least in Wailua and through.

That's how our land is changing, right?

Like Dole is selling off land because it's no longer making money for them, and they're going to sell it to whoever has the money to buy it.

And that's a big loss for us.

It's a loss we weren't prepared or thinking about.

But in losing that, we lose also all this knowledge.

So, when I was growing up, my, my grandpa David would go to the community and tell people who bought land not to fill the low areas where the water is going to drain so that we don't flood.

I mean, he would that's part of being the community.

He would go right up to their house.

Hey, don't feel that spot.

They feel them.

He told you don't feel that spot, but I'll help you.

And in that we're saving our community and keeping them safe.

The plantation also did that.

The ditch man kept the ditch clear.

And so then now you know, more plantation.

Who carries that knowledge, right?

It's not just us being displaced physically.

That knowledge is being displaced and lost.

And then now we're in a point where, well, how do we manage our community again?

The ʻāina that we live on and now private property.

I don't feel like I can go to my neighbor and tell them, oh, by the way, you know, my grandfather said, don't fill over here.

They're probably just going to call the cops on me.

Tell me it's their land.

So it's really now that there are so many things outside of our control is what Melanie is pointing at.

We have to look at what's within our control, which is really to pull together the community.

You don't have to be ethnically Native Hawaiian.

You can be committed to the place that you live.

You can be generational family who have knowledge of those places.

Those are the people that have to come to the table to maintain our communities, to sort of, you know, put a stop to all that quick development that actually causes damage to all of us at the end of the day.

Yeah.

And more than ever to play off on that, the the biggest loss and biggest damage was when it got turned to sugar.

Yeah.

And so what were what were what we can have is an opportunity to that.

Now, you know, instead of having this big mono crop that none of us would benefit from other than get diabetes from, you know, like from, from sugar.

Now we can potentially.

Okay.

What is it?

Now we can prepare for what that might be.

Yeah.

What it used to be and from what it could be again.

And so taking whatever footprint is left that is no longer a minor crop of sugar cane or pineapple and put him back.

What was there before.

Yeah, it was Landon, please.

I think what they're both driving at, which is kind of at the root of a lot of the the challenges we're seeing today is this opposition in worldviews and priorities.

And I would argue that's a worthwhile horizon for us to work towards is a vision of interdependent thriving.

Not that my thriving and my health and well-being comes at the expense of you, but my thriving is because we are in right relationship.

And that, I think, is what we need to continue working towards.

Yeah, because if I thrive, you thrive like that's what we want.

We want everybody together to be uplifted for health and well-being.

Yeah.

And building on that actually is this email that we got in.

Olen, I'd love for you to respond to this.

That what careers have you noticed that our creating have what careers have you noticed are creating new opportunities for native Hawaiians who have Hawaiian knowledge today, or maybe even are Hawaiians creating new career pathways for themselves when the language and the culture is thriving, then of course there can be other opportunities that these this language and cultural resurgence is not just a nice to have because it's a beautiful language, but that there is real value in there of another kind as well.

Yeah, I wouldn't separate them.

I think having expertise in Hawaiʻi and cultural like that just makes you so much better in every single thing that you do.

Like, one of the most brilliant people I know is Donovan Kealoha, my partner at Purple Maiʻa.

But his degree is in Hawaiian language, and it's just like the guy does everything.

It just figures everything out.

And so I see that as a gift.

And and so I would lean into that.

So if someone asked for my advice, I would suggest you study wine language or Hawaiian culture first.

Like that's one of the best degrees you can get on the planet right now.

And it doesn't matter where you want to take that.

And so yeah, I see you smiling.

Yeah.

You've got a leg up on all of us.

Right.

What do you think?

What are their new career pathways for folks who have Hawaiian knowledge?

At the start, there's, being a senior and trying to think about what I'm going to do after Kula is so hard.

I find the biggest problem for hallmark is a lot of the things that we want to study.

I have a classmate going into fashion design tech, one who wants to do film and media and turning these into Hawaiian spaces.

How do we turn fashion design in into something that we can share about?

How do we, you know, flip the tech industry to being more Hawaiian?

And I think that's something that Purple Mito does so well for so many haumana.

I've had so many classmates go through their program, just having that opportunity to branch out and try different things is so helpful for us.

And yeah, it's just a great opportunity.

So there's a question here that I think is really compelling.

The folks who joined us from the continent did not join us live.

And so they're not here to answer this.

But, Malia, I would love for you to take this in, keeping in mind that we only have little under 20 minutes.

So we want to get to as many questions as we can.

But calico asks, how do these Kānaka who have left the homeland to live in a foreign country as Americans?

How do they how do these Kānaka in the diaspora reconcile the fact that their immigration further disempower, displaces, and declares Hawaii?

Do the diaspora feel guilty in making it more easy to supplant our people from our lands?

Now, I don't expect you to answer that because you are not in the diaspora, but I'm curious about what you make of the question.

I think as Kānaka, we we are always, always put into compromising situations because we have to walk two worlds.

Yeah.

And I think, at the very basic level, it's taking care of your ohana.

That's your primary responsibility.

And sometimes you have to make art choices because you are being forced out.

But I think, you know, when I, when I look at some of my home in the diaspora, they, they are fighting for lāhui, you know, and some of them want to return.

And I find the ones that succeed are the ones whose, parents always take, take them in the summer as a Christmas to to touch the ʻāina again and to be with ohana, so that they know so that they have a really strong people.

You know, and I think I don't feel like Kānaka here.

Blame those who are in the diaspora.

We all know what you know how difficult it is to remain in Hawaiʻi.

But I think if we join forces, you know, maybe we can bring them home.

And we each have to strive for that, you know?

And and some have Kānaka have lost their way because and become very capitalist oriented, you know.

And that is a common but maybe what we have to do is educate each other and treat bridges, so that, you know, the keiki who didn't learn from their McCool can learn, you know, and and we we've done that through education and through, especially in uplifting our aloha.

So maybe we both have to try harder together, so that there is that sense of for lāhui.

Kepa, I see you nodding over there.

And I don't expect you to speak for your family on the continent, but what do you make of the premise of the question?

Did the diaspora feel guilty in making it easier to supplant our people from our lands?

Yeah, I think it's an interesting question.

I will speak to my ohana.

So my partner and I actually run a consulting cultural consulting business called, and he actually spent 17 years away from Hawaiʻi.

He grew up, born and raised here.

After his father passed away, was actually the impetus for him to return back home because he wanted to take care of his ohana here.

And the way he got back into Hawaiʻi was because he was a very talented lay maker.

So it actually started with Lei making kind of what you were talking about.

That was kind of his right.

And then it ended up branching out into ʻōlelo and then into owning your own business.

And you had talked about this, too, all in that the future of our Lahi is ownership, right?

It's taking ownership of our of our narrative.

It's taking ownership over our means of economics, and also understanding that the tourism industry that has pervade the vast majority of our economy here in Hawaiʻi, it should be led by us, Hawaiʻi, it should be led by our moʻolelo.

And so I feel that it's important for us as Kānaka to be open to understanding that if we're going to thrive in Aala Hui, we have to own things, right?

We have to either own our Ina, we have their own our language, and we have to own our own stories.

There's another question which really is the premise of our program tonight is how do we make Hawaiians.

What do you feel like a place where Hawaiians can build a future here, not just survive, but thrive land.

And what are your thoughts?

That question reminds us of the kūpuna that's, continues to inspire us.

And it can be represented in Mōhala i ka wai ka maka o ka pua.

A flower can only blossom in healthy conditions, so I think.

The conversation ideally over some ʻawa that we need to continue fostering as a is what are the conditions that we need to create?

What are the structures that need to be shifted in order to create an environment where Hawaiians can thrive?

And there are some of those structures.

Now, of course, there is OHA, there is traditional government, there are different spaces.

Do you feel like that's enough?

I'll start with you and then we'll move it along.

I think it it boils down to governance.

Hawaiians have a significant and traumatic loss of governance.

And until that can be restored, we don't have the voice.

We don't have the advocacy.

We don't have the resource management necessary for us to have the agency to create those conditions.

And to your point, I mean, there's a comment here from YouTube that asks just that what impact does the Native Hawaiian voice have in Hawaiʻi, much less the USA?

Politics?

When Hawaiians make up such a small percentage of the population, less than 22%.

So having that voice is so critical.

Paige, what do you make of that?

I don't know, I'm loud.

I guess if you want to think about it that way, then the numbers are not going to do us any favor.

Right?

But I think if we think about our collective goals and also I think we've been talking about being Hawaiian as an ethnic city, but there is also being Hawaiian as a nation, as a nationality.

And once you start to sort of broaden that, the numbers start to turn in our favor, right?

Like, we're not just talking about ethnically Hawaiian, but what is a very as a nation, you know, and it is more inclusive than just just genealogy.

Now we're looking at people that are dedicated to a nation.

I think then our voice becomes louder, it becomes more important.

And I think what Landon said, we lose so much, we lose self-governance.

We're always, you know, that longing is always there.

We're always pulling for something.

And the well is here that alma crabs in the bucket metaphor.

And I think it was Katie Camilla mela, I think, who posted it and I really appreciated her.

She like took us and zoomed us right back out and said, you know what?

Yes, crabs in a bucket will behave in this way because the bucket is not their natural environment.

So once we're in the conditions, once we're in our own natural environment that allows us to thrive, we don't see that behavior so prominent, you know?

So I think we it is still important to have a voice.

It may not be important to an individual in Alabama, but it's sure important to us here in Hawaiʻi, which is the nation that we're growing.

Yeah, I see you nodding over there.

I'd love to know what you're thinking.

Statistically, if ethnic Hawaiians make up a minority in Hawaiʻi, that doesn't mean we are.

That doesn't take away our indigenous claim to this land.

So, we still have an authority.

Lots of people have spoken tonight about how Hawaiians deserve leadership positions just to sort of name that.

The, There's an anthropologist, I believe his name is Herman.

He calls it anti conquest, which is celebrating Hawaiian Hawaiians while denying us real power.

That's a, that's egregious in Hawaiʻi.

You know, we got we we have, all of these marketing and tourism, campaigns that that's that commoditized Hawaiʻi and our culture and our people and our history and our language and everything.

And it's so it's sold at, in very shiny packages.

And at the end of the day, we don't have the power and we deserve that power.

No, I'd love for you to respond when you're talking about tourism.

I just nod because in my practice I get to hear many stories.

And two things came up for me is one of my a dear friend, not a dear friend.

A dear patient that I work with is what is this school in Hilo called?

There is a Hawaiian school.

Right, right.

Graduate of there.

But she works her job.

Or their job is to teach Hawaiian or teach visitors about Hawaiʻi.

And she's trying so, so, so hard to do that.

And so I, I think of her in the conflict that she has.

But all we can do is try your best, even if you're kind of in this space that's like, yeah, I don't know, you work with tourism, right?

But, it's okay because that is you're taking your gift and you're trying, right?

You're trying.

And then another one that has come out regarding diaspora, I'm going to make this really, really quick.

Typically, the people who enter into my office typically look like us.

But this one time she was blond hair, blue eyes, and I was like, I don't know how effective I can be, but I'm going to try anyway.

She she had marriage dissolved.

And I said, well, did you ever think about going back to California to save your marriage?

And she said, no.

And I said, why?

And she said, because when I came here ten years ago, I felt like home.

And when she said home, my walls started to reverberate.

And I was like, what?

And so I wanted to I wanted to dig a little deeper.

Anyway, long story short, she said, my mom is here.

And I said, you're you mean you're you landed here for a job, but your mom is from here.

She goes, oh yeah, my mom went to Kamehameha School and my so did my grandma.

And she was like, but we're not talking about that.

We're here to talk about this.

I said, no, you landed in my office so we can talk about.

And so we dug deep and in my practice, we went down the hall.

Homegirl is like genealogy back to, like, Kamehameha the Great.

And I was like, sis, like, this is you.

She was like, nobody.

Grandma and mom died up there when they left and didn't know.

But all of that to say, there's richness in that.

And even people in diaspora, that's just one of the stories where you will always find, I said, your kūpuna made you land in this office so that I could we could work this out.

And so that was just a super beautiful moment.

And, I thought that was a W for the day.

Thank you.

I want to go back to this email.

Olen, how do we make Hawai'i feel?

Like a place where Hawaiians can build a future here and not just survive, but thrive?

Well, I don't have any, like, big picture things, so I'm just going to keep it really small.

And just like one week I committed to only eat like local food.

And so I was pretty hungry that week, but I could only eat food if it was grown here by just somebody from here.

And so I think there's a lot of that we can take with our pocketbooks, like the things that we spend our time with, the things that we purchase, the things that we put in our mouth and the events that we go to and celebrate.

There's so much richness for us to audit that.

And just to see like how that aligns with what we think our values are about a place that thrives.

So I would start with myself and look at that.

Like I made a commitment 20 years ago never to drive a gas car again.

And it was really hard.

So some of these things are not easy to do, but do them we must.

Yeah.

Rick, what do you say to that?

You know, I guess.

When people are trying to, you know, make their way back here, if they can, they should do so.

And to what Olin was saying, about, you know, only eating food that's local in Hawaiʻi, I think there's a lot of opportunity or there should be greater opportunities in agriculture in Hawaiʻi.

But agriculture of things that are grown, that stays here in Hawaiʻi for years has always been a place of agriculture, but it was always exported out of way.

So if we can find opportunities to feed ourselves, and use that as an opportunity to also bring people back for labor force or, or kind of, you know, new ways of growing things, you know, that they may have picked up or learn in the diaspora to bring back here.

I think that's a big market that's still wide open.

But what makes it difficult is the cost of land and is the cost of that.

But and but to to also kind of build off of that.

There's a lot of, of practices that people may have picked up that we could also benefit from here.

Like, you know, I work in construction, I work in landscaping, I do a bunch of things in that realm of development, which in one sense it's bad.

But at the same time, there's a lot of skilled laborers out there that it pays well to be able to do that.

But do it the right way.

And so there's opportunities in that as well.

But I think agriculture is someplace that we really need to focus on.

I don't want to end on, you know, we have about five minutes left.

I don't want to end on a topic that is like its own town hall.

But I think this kind of goes back to the beginning of what we talked about.

Malia, if I could ask you just briefly, how much Hawaiian does one need to be consider a native Hawaiian.

And I know blood quantum is it's a whole other issue.

And we could spend hours and we could do a series on that.

But but just briefly, to this caller's question, how much Hawaiian does one need to be considered Native Hawaiian?

How do you take that?

One fingernail is good enough.

Thank you for keeping it short and sweet on that.

Landon, what do you what do you make of that?

I agree, it comes down to what is your genealogical relationship to Hawaii?

An identity.

And if if you have that pōhaku that's pillar is a part of your kahua, your foundation.

That is an integral and proud, piece of your heritage.

I'm curious, you know, how you would answer this question?

I mean, it feels like the caller is really asking, what does one need to call themselves?

Hawaiian?

I'm glad we brought up working in the has.

You know, one of the biggest things it's taught me is, you know, building these poor is that we're all different size polkas.

You know, you have your nihos, you have your, some of my classmates, they're not Hawaiian.

Some of my kumu is.

They're not Hawaiian.

But I go to a Hawaiian charter school, and, you know, they are some of the most Hawaiian people I've ever met.

You know, we all have our different.

Some big, some small.

Some people have big voices, some people have small voices, but they're all important.

You know, I think the biggest thing is, send your kids to Hawaiian charter schools, you know, put them in kaiapuni I've never felt shamed to be Hawaiian in a school where you're constantly told that being Hawaiian is amazing, that it's a gift.

I've I've never experienced any mental health issues because I have a community that's so supportive.

You know, a lot of the people standing here have helped my kula, Rick Barbosa I've been there.

We've learned all about native Hawaiian plants.

They've helped our school in so many different ways.

So, yeah, you know, I think it starts with us, Keiki.

You know, if you guys can help forge us into the people that we're going to become and, you know, give us these tools now, then hopefully we can, you know, flip the screen and make sure that our future is secured here in Hawaiʻi.

Okay.

What do you how do you answer this college question?

How much Hawaiian does one need to be considered Native Hawaiian if you have one kūpuna Hawaiʻi or Hawaiian.

Yeah.

And Paige, what?

What do you make of the question?

I'm so sorry.

I'm not a doctor.

You're going to have to ask Landon to write that prescription for you.

Yeah, I agree.

I think I understand people grow up questioning that.

I've never questioned that because my family raised me Hawaiian, I am Hawaiian, I'm Japanese, and that is me.

And I hope that you find your connection with that one kūpuna, your one toenail and your one eyelash, as your kahuna.

Because that's not something I think, you know, you should question for yourself.

I mean, it's so beautiful.

In all of our conversation tonight, I really feel a big welcoming and a call to action on so many different things to really say, come join us.

I mean, that's really the essence that I'm getting.

We're almost out of time.

We have about a minute left.

What do you say to this caller?

How much Hawaiian does one need to be considered Native Hawaiian?

Double what everybody else said, I think also just have aloha for Hawaiʻi, right?

If you have a forum and you get one kūpuna, then you're Hawaiian enough.

That's that's all it is.

And and ultimately what it comes down to is once you're solid in that identity, then we can get to work on everything else, right?

Because once once we're in that and then we can all agree on that, everything else we can start to address the bigger issues.

Yeah, it's like we're pie in that.

Okay.

Thank you all tonight.

I really appreciate all that you shared.

Mahalo to our guests and mahalo to you at home for sharing your perspectives tonight.

As we heard, cultural resurgence is not the finish line.

It is the foundation.

Clearly, a thriving Hawaiʻi depends on Native Hawaiians having the opportunity and the power to shape what comes next.

Join us next Thursday as we continue with our general election coverage on insights on PBS Hawaiʻi with the candidates for Kauaʻi Mayor, I'm Yunji de Nies.

And till next time, Aloha.

Thank you for being here.

Good night.

This program was made possible by the Corporation for Public Broadcasting and by contributions to your PBS station from viewers like you.

Thank you.

Kākou, Hawaiʻi's town hall, is sponsored by Ke Kula ʻo Kamehameha, the Office of Hawaiian Affairs, Hawai'i Community Foundation, and Hawaiian Native Corporation.