Funding for New Mexico in Focus is provided by viewers like you.

>> Nash: This week on New Mexico in Focus, the Santa Fe New Mexican█s Carina Julig takes us inside the capital city struggles to serve a growing homeless population.

>> Julig: Homelessness really is reaching kind of, you know, crisis proportions in Santa Fe.

They really are not in the position where they could afford to, lose any existing shelter space.

>> Nash: Plus, we bring in two other local journalists to get caught up on more of the biggest stories from around the state.

New Mexico in Focus starts now.

Thanks for joining us, I'm Nash Jones.

So, well, an uninterrupted hour to cover local news each week is a luxurious amount of time.

We still can't get to everything.

So this week we decided to play a little catch up with the help of other newsrooms across the state.

So over the next hour, you're going to hear from New Mexico journalists who spent the time and energy needed to cover big, important local stories that we think you should know more about.

You may have heard that Blackstone, the nation's largest private equity firm, wants to buy the parent company of PNM, the state's largest electric provider.

Well, tonight, executive producer Jeff Proctor hashes that out with Justin Horwath, an Albuquerque Journal reporter who's written about who those players are, what they want to do, why community members are loudly pushing back, and what's still to come.

We're also going to welcome source New Mexico reporter Patrick Lohmann back to the show.

He's been a busy guy, and there are three different stories that we wanted him to share with you.

I'm going to chat with Patrick about the status of county contracts with Immigration and Customs Enforcement.

Since the governor signed a ban on them, that's yet to go into effect.

We're also going to get into the details of a Canadian uranium company's hopes to drill in northern New Mexico.

And finally, the latest on the effort to redevelop the state fairgrounds.

But we begin tonight with a deeply reported series of stories from Carina Julig at the Santa Fe New Mexican about the status of Urban Alchemy.

That's the nonprofit that last year took over the capital city's homeless shelter, previously known as Pete█s Place.

In a two part conversation, she delves into where Urban Alchemy█s two city contracts stand and how impactful the organization has been.

For the New Mexicans who live or work at the shelter, unhoused people and business owners in the surrounding area, and the taxpayers footing the bill.

Here's senior producer Lou DiVizio.

>> Lou: Carina Julig, thank you so much for being here on New Mexico in focus.

>> Julig: Thank you so much for having me.

>> Lou: Yeah, of course.

Why did you decide to look into Urban Alchemy's work and contracts now?

And what questions were you trying to answer?

>> Julig: Yeah, well, that's a great question.

Well, first of all, homelessness just writ large is something that we've been covering a lot at the New Mexican.

And that's something that people in Santa Fe really feel like is becoming a crisis.

There was actually a poll during our municipal election last year from the local realtors association that found that homelessness and poverty was the top issue that residents want our local elected officials to address.

And Urban Alchemy, The City Council approved two contracts for them to provide services last summer, and they were very controversial at the time.

And they're also very big ticket items.

The two contracts are, $1.5 million, one year contracts to operate our local homeless shelter and a $7.9 million, four year contract for street outreach services.

And both of those were from non reoccurring sources of money.

So what we really wanted to do with the newspaper was kind of around the, you know, six months time frame, just essentially check in and see, you know, what is the city getting for that money, what services are being provided and, you know, how are things going as the city council is going to have to continue to make some pretty big decisions in the coming months about how to allocate city resources going forward.

>> Lou: Okay.

And what did you find when you looked into the contracts?

Where does the money spent stand in at that six month mark?

>> Julig: as of the end of January, So six months into their contract, they had already spent more than $1.2 million out of a $1.5 million contract to operate the homeless shelter.

And that's money that is, supposed to last for a full year.

>> Lou: Right.

So, quick math on that.

That's it's a lot more the first half then that's left on the second half.

So you find that number and then you turn this into quite a few stories with a bunch of different angles.

How did you decide to broaden this out into all of those different angles, and how did you approach those stories?

>> Julig: Yeah.

Well, you know, my editor has never accused me of being concise.

So, you know, it was just one of those, one of those stories that kind of just grew as it went along.

You know, we ended up kind of breaking out one specific story, just looking at kind of the ongoing, you know, how the opioid crisis and, you know, substance addiction is really continuing to affect homeless providers.

And that was really something that came out of conversations that we had with Urban Alchemy employees.

They talked about, you know, the toll that can have for, you know, employees and guests who are in recovery, the toll that, you know, working in an environment where people are overdosing and you have to try and, you know, save their lives, can take and, I mean, homelessness obviously is a super multifaceted issue.

So the story kind of just grew as we got more information through the reporting process.

>> Lou: Okay.

So part of the, your first story and some of your others also, you spoke with the nonprofit's chief administrative officer, Mike Anderer.

He later asked to retract his comments that you published.

What did he say to you?

>> Julig: Yeah, he said kind of some some interesting things, which is that according to him, at least, there had maybe been an understanding between Urban Alchemy and the city last summer, while the contract was being put together, that that money might not last them the whole year.

And he attributed that to the fact that, he said the contracts didn't account for, for meals and for, you know, three, eight hour shifts that we needed to staff a shelter on a 24 seven basis.

Although if you if you do look at the text of the contract, 24 seven operations is a stipulation.

And he, he had said, and this is one of the things that we quoted directly in the story that, the city, while this was being considered, you know, it was very contentious and the city kind of just wanted to get it done and maybe kind of revisit the money later.

And, yeah, this is a direct quote.

He said the city really wanted to get it done and have it be as smooth as it could be.

And we did reach out to, some former city employees in the Webber administration, and they did, dispute kind of his characterization.

But that was what we were told by Urban Alchemy, at least.

>> Lou: Okay.

So the he said, she said is he expected more money and was under the impression that the city was also understood that they needed to give more money eventually before the one year was up.

And the city says that's not true.

>> Julig: Yeah.

I mean, that was that was what Mr.

Anderer said.

And, yeah.

And the city's, former kind of chief homelessness official under the library administration said that, you know, any any implication that the city was promising them more future money or resources is false.

And that would have been inappropriate for the city to do at that time.

>> Lou: Got it.

So what happens if the money runs out for the shelter before the year's open?

>> Julig: That is the maybe $1.5 million question.

I don't think we have a clear answer to that, but I know that is something that, new Mayor Michael Garcia has directly asked them.

And I think we're going to have more conversation, perhaps within the coming weeks at City Council about how, that money is going to be allocated going forward, because, and Garcia, of course, we spoke to him for the story and he said, you know, they agreed to this contract with the city and there is an understanding that, you know, this is a crucial service to a very, vulnerable population and that that needs to continue.

>> Lou: Sure.

So are you aware of any workarounds at this point, or is that all TBD through council?

>> Julig: Yeah.

Well, Urban Alchemy, at Mayor Garcia's request did actually, come and present to the City Council, in late February for the the first time since they began operations in Santa Fe over the summer.

And they did bring their CFO, and she had presented what they described as a revised service plan.

So essentially, at this point, they are not asking the city for additional money, but they are asking for a contract amendment that would move some of the money they've allocated for street outreach services and operation of what they call an oasis, which is sort of like an outdoor, safe space where homeless people can congregate that's staffed, and have some of that money be moved to, management of the homeless shelter, which they've renamed Agape House.

And so that potentially is something that we could see presented to the City Council for consideration in the relatively near future.

>> Lou: Okay, thanks.

How volatile does this situation appear to you at this point?

>> Julig: Yeah.

Well, like in many cities, I think homelessness really is reaching kind of, you know, crisis proportions in Santa Fe.

Something that pretty much everyone acknowledges is, our local homeless population is probably on the low estimate, several hundred people greater than the number of, shelter beds that the city has.

So they they really are not in the position where they could afford to, lose any existing shelter space without it becoming a, a pretty significant problem locally.

So, you know, I think there's a sense from everyone that the, the city owned homeless shelter needs to, needs to continue running and be run well you know, or else it would be a pretty serious local problem.

>> Lou: Okay.

Last question.

Considering how bad this could get for the city if they had to close up.

I know they said that they didn't agree to it initially, but is there a chance that they could just amend the contract and give more money?

>> Julig: I mean, that that's really up to the city councilors and they'll they'll be the ones responsible for making that decision.

We did reach out to some of the councilors who, had supported the initial Urban Alchemy contracts, and that they, would approve this amendment going forward.

But we do have some new councilors, actually three new councilors.

Who are completely brand new to the council and weren't part of this discussions last year.

So I think it really depends on some of the data that they got from Urban Alchemy in the future and, how they ultimately what they ultimately feel like the city is getting for its money as they're also preparing to go into another flat budget year for fiscal year 2027.

>> Lou: Thank you, Carina.

We'll move on to the street outreach portion of their contract a little later.

Thank you.

>> Julig: All right.

>> Horwath: I think that people just don't like the term private equity.

I think, and I think a lot of New Mexicans don't like the idea of, somebody, you know, managing their electric grid from Park Avenue, New York.

>> Nash: Catch the Albuquerque Journal's Justin Horwath on Blackstone's bid to buy PNM in about half an hour.

Stay with us for part two of our conversation with Carina Julig as well.

But first, we are going to get into a whole slew of important stories from Source New Mexico, a nonprofit digital outlet with a focus on state government, all with Patrick Lohmann's byline at the top.

We asked Lohmann to come by to share with you some of the latest on the stories that he's been following.

That includes where things stand with investing tens of millions of dollars to rehab the state fairgrounds, and a request to the Forest Service to drill for uranium in the north.

We start, though, with a look at the New Mexico counties that contract with ICE to detain immigrants.

Back in February, Governor Michelle Lujan Grisham signed the Immigrant Safety Act, banning new contracts and requiring the speedy end to the three existing ones.

However, that law doesn't go into effect until late May.

So in the meantime, Lohmann has kept an eye on how those counties are maneuvering.

Patrick, thanks so much for joining us.

>> Lohmann: Thank you for having me.

>> Nash: So let's start in on Otero County.

Their county commission's effort to extend its ICE contract hasn't exactly been straightforward.

What's been happening there?

>> Lohmann: Right, So they've met several times, since, Governor Michelle Lujan Grisham the Immigrant Safety Act, doesn't go into effect for a few months.

And in that intervening period, they've met a few times seeking to extend the contract, for up to five years, while also including language that, they say will prevent the county from even having the power to exit the agreement.

So they're seeking to extend this contract in apparent defiance of the state law.

But they've done it in a couple of different ways and have drawn attention from the attorney general's office both times.

The first time, they gave, very little notice.

They held, a emergency meeting, that lasted about 12 minutes.

And they unanimously approved this contract, only to receive an Open Meetings Act violation Notice from the attorney general who declared the contract invalid.

>> Nash: Okay.

>> Lohmann: Basically, he said that they didn't have adequate basis to have held that emergency meeting and should have had more notice.

>> Nash: Okay.

>> Lohmann: They met again, recently, to seek to kind of cure that violation to pass the, contract without potentially violating the Open Meetings Act.

And the day of that meeting, the county attorney, R.B.

Nichols, received another letter from the attorney general saying, that even if you were to cure this, a violation, you were you would be violating another state law that requires a state agency to approve these contracts.

They they went ahead.

They approved the contract.

And then, today, the attorney general, filed a petition to the Supreme Court asking the Supreme Court to intervene and, deem the contract, illegal and prevent them from enforcing it.

>> Nash: Okay, And that happened today.

And to clarify, we're talking here on Wednesday.

>> Lohmann: Yes.

>> Nash: So where does this process stand now?

>> Lohmann: I think we just have to wait and see what the Supreme Court does and how they rule.

I reached out to the county attorney's office.

And to see if they- >> Nash: And if they rule at all Right?

>> Lohmann: Right.

Right.

So we'll just see, what happens there.

The attorney general is committed to keeping the public, updated.

I would note that the, county attorney and the commission in Otero seem to be contemplating some type of action.

Maybe this one.

Maybe.

Maybe more in court.

They, in addition to approving the contract, they, approved a resolution calling for outside counsel in the event of possible litigation.

So very like- >>Nash: So kind of stealing themselves against that, or at least building up their capacity to take this to court.

>> Lohmann: Right.

I think that that that might be the next arena for a lot of this stuff.

>> Nash: All right, let's let's move on to Cibola County.

They went kind of a different direction than Otero.

What have they been up to?

>> Lohmann: Right.

So the Otero County, ice contract is unique for the reason that the county owns the facility where ICE detainees are being held, >> Nash: Whereas in Cibola and Torrance, they don't.

>> Lohmann: Right, so they are they are very comparable.

They both contract with Core Civic, which owns and operates the jail in both counties.

So as we've been reporting on this for months, we've talked about these contracts and the potential implications of House Bill nine to, interrupt these contracts.

But it's always been a possibility in talking to advocates and from county officials that, that the two entities, Ice and CoreCivic, could contract directly and which would have minimal impacts on the county's.

>> Nash: Yeah During the legislative session, I spoke with the county manager in Cibola Kate Fletcher, and she said that she hoped that they would because it would maintain those jobs in that community.

>> Lohmann: Right, exactly.

And the state doesn't really have power to intervene in a private company's ability to contract.

It was just these intergovernmental service agreements that basically make the counties- >> Nash: It's almost it almost felt symbolic in, removing New Mexico from quote unquote, like the business of ice.

>> Lohmann: Right, right.

Or being making them complicit in this mass deportation push.

So what's happening in Cibola is similar.

What's happening in Torrance is that they are signaling that they are, ready to exit from these agreements.

Especially given that that Ice has announced that its intent on government contracting websites to to seek a sole source contract with a company that would run, both those facilities.

And, they're hopeful that that that would be in place by, by May, which is when the, the law goes.

>> Nash: Okay.

And you're reporting on Cibola It seemed to have a bit where they're kind of watching what's happening in Otero, no?

>> Lohmann: Right.

So what they agreed to do, at the recent meeting was send a letter to both Ice and core civic.

That said, we are beginning our withdrawal from these contracts, but they noticed, they noted in the letter, that that it was possible that a court of competent jurisdiction would be taking up the matter.

And so, they noted that their contracts could not be terminated if, if a court were to intervene.

>> Nash: I see, so depending on what happens in Otero, Cibola as kind of saying, well, if something good happens over there for them, we want in on that.

>> Lohmann: Right.

So I talked to the county manager and the chair of the county commission.

They both said we don't know what Otero was going to do, but we wanted to have language in here contemplating the possibility of litigation that would, prevent us from having to terminate our agreement.

>> Nash: All right.

And then last but not least, Torrance County What's going on there?

>> Lohmann: Yeah.

So Torrance County, had a similar, item on the agenda as, Cibola County.

They are seeking to extend their contract for another month through April, April 30th, >> Nash: Because their contract that they had previously extended, it expired this week?

>> Lohmann: Right >> Nash: And so they're seeking to extend it another month to the end of April.

And what else?

>> Lohmann: But they did note in meeting agenda materials that, they had had conversations with core civic.

And recognize that the possibility existed and even the likelihood existed that Ice and CoreCivic would contract directly for the Torrance County Detention facility as well.

They tried to meet on Monday to, extend this contract and discuss this possibility.

They decided, that because of a typo in the agenda, they didn't want to themselves run afoul of an Open Meetings Act violations.

And they're scheduled to meet Thursday morning.

>> Nash: Okay, so later this week and as we air, that would have been that the day before.

>> Lohmann: Yeah.

>> Nash: Let's move on to another story that you've been covering in some depth.

And that is, Canadian Uranium Company that is seeking to drill in northern New Mexico.

They've been, seeking approval from the Forest Service, to drill in the Carson National Forest.

Where does that request stand?

>> Lohmann: Right.

So in late February, Gamma Resources Limited, which is based out of Vancouver, issued a notice of intent.

To do exploratory uranium drilling in an area called Canyon in the Carson National Forest.

They are seeking the Forest Service's permit to drill up to 12 boreholes about 500ft deep, in a four mile area that they believe to be, full of uranium rich deposits.

So, now the Forest Service is reviewing that request to determine if that exploratory drilling would cause substantial surface disruption.

And if it does, they would have to invoke, a much more thorough environmental review.

And, also bring in a lot more and conduct a scoping report.

The Forest Service may have to do all this, to evaluate a lot of potential impacts, at, to nearby communities, water, land.

>> Nash: So they're deciding whether they, may approve this request, or they may say a much more extensive environmental review is needed.

Is there any timeline for when the Forest Service might make that call?

>> Lohmann: No.

And, these do tend to take a while.

There have been permits in other national forests that, are steadily making their way through, but, but I think even fast tracked, we're talking about 3 or 4 years.

But, you know, remains to be seen.

President Donald Trump has been pushing to, expand uranium production and, and really on the federal side, really facilitate and quicken these approvals.

I would hasten to add, though, that that in all of the recent uranium projects in New Mexico, there's also a state process.

And in talking to state officials, they have described what they call a robust process that is required before any drilling can occur.

And, and those processes are ongoing and they haven't the company has not yet filed as of April 1st.

>> Nash: Okay.

So that would be another step before any of those boreholes were created?

>> Lohmann: Yeah.

It's like a parallel permitting process.

They try to coordinate them, but with the state has as much power to- >> Nash: In your reporting, you spoke with, Rio Arriba County Commissioner Moise Morales about the project.

What did you hear?

>> Lohmann: Right.

So, he's deeply concerned about this.

From what I understand, this was really a surprise to a lot of people in the area who haven't really had uranium on their radar.

But he immediately kind of likened it to, a long history there of tension between particularly land Grant errors and the federal government, including the Forest Service.

And, you know, said it kind of the long line in, decades of, of injustice, forest mismanagement, and, just said he was mobilizing opposition to, to fight at every level >> Nash: And just this week, Chama Conservation District board member also spoke out.

What did you hear from him?

>> Lohmann: Right.

So he similarly, was taken aback by the possibility that this could occur.

And he is seeking special meeting with members of the Upper Chama Soil and Water Conservation District just to try to, see how they can participate in, in the process being the government entity that is tasked with, preserving natural resources.

I'm not sure exactly what that looks like.

I don't know if he, does either, but he's certainly trying to participate more and convene stakeholders and different tribal governments and communities that to make sure that there is a full review, particularly of the watershed before any uranium is >> Nash: And it sounded like he had heard about this potential drilling from your reporting.

So he hadn't heard about this before you reported on this?

>> Lohmann: Yeah.

That that's right.

There- there has been some concern about the transparency of some of these moves.

The company apparently had been working, you know, behind the scenes for a while to, establish the, the leasing rights to get this in place.

They're also proposing another, drilling operation in Utah.

But, but if you had known to find the website where, again, the resources had made a pitch to investors about this project, you wouldn't have known about it.

>> Nash: And so you've heard from a number of, elected officials in opposition.

Have you heard of any, local officials that are in favor of this idea?

>> Lohmann: No, not local officials.

The company obviously is in favor of it.

And, but, yeah, I think that anytime you talk about uranium in New Mexico, people immediately, think about the legacy of, public health and environmental impacts.

Certainly.

That's what Moises, was talking about, about the grants mineral belt in the Navajo Nation.

And so, I don't think many local folks are receptive to the possibility.

>> Nash: Okay.

And are you going to be keeping an eye on that story as it moves forward?

>> Lohmann: Yeah, certainly.

As we've been doing, there's another pair of uranium mine proposals that are also seeking for National Forest Service approval that are near Mount Taylor, which is, mountain sacred.

A lot of the Navajo Nation.

And so we've been following both the federal and the state permitting process.

And on the state side, one of those mines, the state has agreed to hold a public hearing about its permit request.

So we're just kind of following every step of the way.

>> Nash: Yeah.

All right.

And let's move on to a third story.

You've been busy.

Reporter.

You've been covering the effort to redevelop the fairgrounds, which has been, a months long process.

And a new step has been hit in that, a plan has been approved.

What does that plan include?

>> Lohmann: The plan is just for what they're calling the first phase, easy wins.

In a broader transformation project at the fairgrounds.

So far, there's been $200 million proximately between bonds and, funding in the state budget.

That is just going to pay for, redevelopment projects on a corner of the fairgrounds.

It will pay for the acquisition, acquisition of certain properties, that are currently privately held.

We will build a public park.

It's going to make pedestrian safety improvements at, central and Lomas and Central and San Pedro, which are two of the deadliest intersections in the state.

And it's also going to fund, a stadium.

And there's money in there for housing, as well.

And so you said that it's coming from a few different areas.

Can we break that down a little bit?

What what money will be spent?

>>Right, So the legislature in 2025, created a new tax district board, basically, that has up to $500 million in bonding capacity that they would get incrementally over the next few years.

So the legislature approved $92 million in bonds that will go to this project.

In addition, they have $100 million in the state budget.

That is, supposed to be $30 million for housing and $70 million for, other state fair transformation funds.

And then there's another $40 million, I understand, from last year's budget that went to the state fair.

So we're talking about 200 and something million.

>> Nash: That's what's been approved so far for phase one.

And then as you said, there's additional bonding capacity down the line for this board.

>> Right, So the way it was explained to me in talking to one of the designers whose plan the board approved recently, is they are trying to find ways to generate revenue within the boundaries of this district that will pay for future development.

And so that's the stadium is integral to that.

And, that is going to be the revenue that they can, collect, taxes from to fund things like, broader transformations.

And so that's why they would stress that there's been no decision yet about whether the fair will move, because there isn't that the earliest phase to A could begin.

>> Nash: That was going to be one of my questions, because I went to the fair in September and heard from a number of vendors and attendees who were very concerned about it.

>> Lohmann: Yeah, absolutely.

I did the same thing.

And, in hearing the presentation from Stantec, which has the contract to do this master plan, that was approved, they heard that.

Two, they certainly feel like it was a generally a consensus among community members that they didn't want to have to move.

And they said that the earliest decision like that could be made as 2031.

>> Nash: Okay.

So while out, the only person who voted against this plan, was Bernalillo County Commissioner Adrienne Barboa What did she have to say about why she voted against it?

>> Lohmann: Yeah.

So she, is among, a few folks who are paying close attention to this process who are generally concerned about, not about the money.

They are they embrace the fact that there's this much investment occurring.

But where the money will be spent and particularly how it will, provide a community benefit, particularly to the international district in other areas.

So I think she's waiting, awaiting details on some of those things, including on what type of housing could be brought there, whether it's rentals or single family.

>> Nash: So she wanted more information before she cast her vote >> Lohmann: Yeah.

Basically that she, the fellow board members tried to reassure her during that meeting that, that those details would be forthcoming, and that she would be putting the cart before the horse- >>Nash: And some background on that is that she had come out ahead of the, community meeting where this plan was presented, and said that she had heard from the governor's office that there was going to be, a significant chunk, $70 million of that 100 million that we talked about that the legislature approved, spent on a stadium in, the fairgrounds area for the New Mexico United soccer team.

And that she had heard that from, former Mayor Marty Chavez, who's kind of spearheading this project for the governor's office.

She had kind of dueling, news conferences, even with, Chavez around that idea.

The governor's office ended up coming out and saying that, Barbeau statements were gossip and fear mongering.

So there was some back and forth about whether there had been some backroom dealings around this stadium, whether New Mexico United was going to live at that stadium when there's also this other project, a balloon fiesta park, around a potential United Stadium So that's some background around Barboa No vote as well.

>> Lohmann: Yeah.

Yeah, certainly.

I think, it is an interesting, governmental body that is kind of made up from, the state legislature and the governor's office and the city council.

The mayor of Albuquerque is on it, city councilors on it, a member of the neighborhood.

So just, observing this unscripted seeming kind of clash of people with all their own fiefdoms coming together, trying to decide how, the money will be spent, has been interesting and has caused some friction, >> Nash: But thanks for breaking these three big stories that you've been covering.

Thank you to Patrick Lohmann for his reporting and for coming on in Focus to share it with you.

You can find those stories and much, much more at sourcenm.com.

Now let's get back to Lou█s conversation with Santa Fe New Mexican journalist Carina Julig, who recently dropped a series of stories exploring the city's contracts with nonprofit Urban Alchemy for homeless services.

Earlier, she discussed concerns over the organization's dwindling budget to operate its shelter.

Next Lou asked Julig about another of Urban Alchemy█s city contracts and what we know and don't know about how successful the organization has been.

>> Lou: Carina, welcome back.

Earlier we spoke about Urban Alchemy█s shelter contract, but that's not the only one that it holds with the city of Santa Fe.

They also hold a separate contract for street outreach.

What have you learned about that effort specifically?

>> Julig: Yeah, well, this is a very high dollar contract for the city of Santa Fe.

They were awarded a $7.9 million, four year contract for street outreach services along the Cerrillos Road corridor which, of course, is our main thoroughfare in Santa Fe, as well as the downtown areas surrounding the plaza.

And the understanding there is that this would be a group of people that would provide kind of, proactive engagement to people on the street, with kind of a goal of getting them into the shelter or kind of to congregate in sort of this, daytime oasis space, which is in the parking lot of the Agape House Homeless Shelter.

We had asked for, records about kind of what sort of services they're providing and how many, engagements they're having with people in the town.

And, well, the contract was for kind of these two main areas, which are both sort of kind of hotspots for homeless activity.

They, in the first 5 or 6 months of their operation, the majority of their street outreach, according to their own data, has been pretty tightly focused in the area around the homeless shelter in the Sila Rufina neighborhood.

They did present some of that data to the city council in February, and they said that they felt like that was a real need just because of how, much of a hotspot that was and that they're sort of starting to slowly branch out now into some of those other regions in the city.

>> Lou: Okay, now you reported that people aren't seeing the team out and about.

How do you understand how visible the the street outreach has been?

Julig: Yeah, that's a great question.

Obviously, it's a little bit hard to gauge that because, you know, this is a big city.

And just because one person doesn't see them out doesn't necessarily mean they're, not active in other areas.

We were able to go along with a, a street outreach shift to De Vargas Park, which is kind of a, I'd say frequent homeless gathering place, near downtown Santa Fe.

And they said they go out there pretty much every day almost.

And when we were out there, it was clear that a lot of the people that, were out there who they interacted with, knew them, had a rapport with them, seemed to trust them.

But at least that day, they didn't have a lot of success in getting people to, you know, agree to go to the Oasis or to get their name on the waiting list for a shelter bed.

So if the goal is to, kind of move homeless people along, let's say, which I do think is the desire, particularly of some people who are, you know, business owners kind of in our urban core.

It's not clear so far how effective are those?

>> Lou: Okay.

I want to nail that down a little bit.

You said that there are some holes in data, or at least there's some some data that maybe the city wants to see that urban alchemy hasn't been able to provide.

What have you been able to find about the number of people that have been moved into less emergency situations compared to the previous operator Interfaith Community Shelter?

>> Julig: Yeah, well, there are kind of some striking numbers on that.

We did ask Urban Alchemy directly, you know, how many people have gone from living at agave agave house into permanent housing?

And they said as of mid-March, 11 people had transitioned into what they described as permanent housing, and a total of 27 have had some sort of positive exit, which could also include going to a, a higher barrier shelter in town.

That does seem to be significantly lower than the number of people who had made that transition under the former operator, the Interfaith Community Shelter.

Their executive director said that in their last year of operating the shelter, 53 people had either received a housing voucher or had actually gone into permanent housing.

And they also, since losing that contract, have housed more people since August than Urban Alchemy.

They still have case managers and they operate a, long term motel lease for homeless seniors.

And the interim director has said that since August, they've been able to get 18 people who are part of that program into housing as well.

>> Lou: Okay yeah, that's pretty interesting.

Now back to how Urban Alchemy is operating at this moment.

You've heard from city councilors and business owners who feel that the nonprofit is doing a good job.

If not data, what are they basing that on?

>> Julig: Well, remember, kind of the real reason things came to a head last year was because of how kind of problematic the area around the shelter had become for residents and business owners.

There was a pretty dramatic statistic the city staff had provided that showed that, almost 5% of the police department's total call volume was for, I believe, a 1000ft radius around the shelter.

So, issues with petty crime and drug use and other problem activity were a huge drain on that area.

And the city and requested the city council terminate the Interfaith Community Shelter's lease really said that it was just an untenable situation.

And that was, you know, even Interfaith Community Shelter, although, of course, they wanted to continue operating, essentially even agreed without themselves.

And so the city council, the councilors, when Urban Alchemy presented in February, did say they were very pleased with, what they've been able to do to clean up Harrison Road, which is a road the shelter is located on.

And they felt like, they've done a much better job of managing the area than the former operator.

So if that is, if that was really the kind of the thing they felt like was the most problematic.

They seemed pleased with the the difference in how it looks now.

>> Lou: or one of your other stories, you spoke with Urban Alchemy employees.

Who are they and how are they feeling about this organization and the work that it's doing?

>> Julig: Yeah, well, Urban Alchemy was founded in 2018, and they describe their primary mission actually not as, providing homeless services, but as providing meaningful employment to people who have been incarcerated.

And the majority of the people they work to hire are people who have had experience, in the criminal justice system, here in Santa Fe, they've hired about a total of 90 people, but 50 of them have not stayed on, with the organization for one reason or another.

They have about 40 employees now, and many of those are people who have lived experience either with incarceration or who have dealt with addiction or homelessness themselves, which, you know, is something that the nonprofit says gives them kind of a super power almost when it comes to relating to the clients, because a lot of these people are coming from, very similar backgrounds and can understand where shelter guests are coming from.

>> Lou: Okay.

Well, what are you going to be watching for next?

I know there are a lot of moving pieces here.

>> Julig: Yeah, well we certainly at the New Mexican will be continuing to provide ongoing coverage of homeless services.

And, you know, I think the next big thing is to look out for our, yeah what the city council decides in terms of this, requested contract amendment, but they're also going to have to make some pretty big decisions going forward into the next funding year about, you know, if they want Urban Alchemy to continue to operate the homeless shelter.

And if they decide they don't want that, they're going to have to find a new operator pretty fast.

And they're going to have to figure out where, the money is going to come from if they want to extend these contracts.

Since that did come from primarily non-recurring money, and the city is putting forward another flat budget.

So if, you know, essentially for pretty much everything that's on the table, if, you know, if one thing gets money, that may mean that something else may not be able to get funded.

So I do think they're going to have potentially some hard choices in front of them.

>> Lou: Okay.

All right, we'll be watching them and watching your coverage.

Carina Julig, thank you so much for being here.

>> Julig: Thank you so much for having me.

>> Lou: Of course.

>> Nash: Thanks again to Carina Julig for getting all the way under the hood on what Urban Alchemy has and has not done to fulfill its contracts.

You can read all of Carina█s work at santafenewmexican.com.

That's all one word.

We end tonight with one more big story that we never would have gotten to without a little help from our friends.

It involves the proposed takeover of the largest electric utility in the state, Public Service Company of New Mexico, or PNM.

Last May, the New York City based private equity behemoth Blackstone Incorporated put $11.5 billion on the table to acquire TXNM.

That's PNM█s parent company.

The sale is pending approval by the New Mexico Public Regulation Commission, but this story has been anything but a smooth ride over these last ten months.

Longtime New Mexico based investigative reporter Justin Horwath has been without a permanent journalism home for a few years, but now he's landed a full time gig covering energy for the Albuquerque Journal.

Harwath has been chronicling the PNM Blackstone saga for the state's largest newspaper.

And this week, he joined us for a chat via zoom with his old friend and former colleague Jeff Proctor, our executive producer.

Here's that conversation.

>> Jeff: Justin, you have got a new journalism home since last we did this, which is exciting.

And you are also playing hurt today with a little case of the flu and any case, I appreciate you being here today.

And welcome back to New Mexico in Focus.

>> Horwath: Thanks for having me, Jeff.

>> Jeff: So Nash just laid out this proposed 11 figure sale, which obviously sounds massive.

But before we dive in, I'd like to get some clarity on the players here.

Blackstone is a massive private equity firm, and that's a phrase that tends to make people feel things.

So what is private equity in this context and who is Blackstone.

>> Horwath: Blackstone is a little different from I think, what a lot of people think that private equity is.

I'll take the newspaper business, for instance.

We've had a lot of private equity firms come in.

They'll, acquire a stake in a newspaper, often get involved with management, lay off a lot of people, in order to get to generate higher returns from a distressed business.

Blackstone is a little different.

They're listed private equity, which means they're listed on public stock exchanges.

Anybody can go buy shares of Blackstone.

And they are an assets under management firm, which, they have a lot of these funds and its infrastructure fund is getting into the utility business.

And they say that they want to, buy up utilities like TXNM to, for their infrastructure fund.

And they say that they want to be in it for the long term, that this isn't like a typical private equity.

We're going to come in here and, you know, strip the utility for parts and leave.

>> Jeff: Gotcha.

I appreciate that explanation.

So, like you just said, Blackstone wants to scoop up, TXNM which is the parent company of PNM who has a stake and whether that sale goes through.

How big a deal is this?

>> Horwath: I mean, I think that the utility itself, PNM, TXNM really have the biggest stake here because they, they want to make it easier on themselves to raise money for generation and transmission projects and like, literally, you know, the PNM CEO will have to hit the road and go ask people for money, raise, raise money for corporate bonds and everything.

And, I think that for PNM, TXNM they're saying it's with Blackstone as a, as a partner, it's going to be a lot easier for them to, you know, finance these new generation projects that they're building out.

From the 2019 Energy Transition Act.

They're going to they have to green up their grid.

They gotta pay for it somehow.

So they're made and they say that Blackstone is going to be, the way that they want to do it.

>> Jeff: Gotcha.

And just for clarity's sake to PNM services, what, 550,000 customers in New Mexico.

So those are all stakeholders in this too, right.

>> Horwath: Yep yep.

Obviously.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And the ratepayers and you know, the ratepayers obviously have a huge stake in whether the rates are going to go up, how, you know, this big private equity firm is going to steward the electric grid for New Mexico.

You know, this is this is obviously Blackstone's not a local company.

You know, they say that they want local management and everything like that.

But yeah, I think as a ratepayer you have a huge stake in this deal.

>> Jeff: So you just mentioned that the reason that TKM might want to make a sale like this is because they may not have the credit rating to fulfill the governor's climate goals.

They might not be able to buy all the toys that are needed.

Give me the rest of the backdrop here.

What's the rest of the case that's coming from that side of the negotiating table, in terms of why this would be good for people who live in New Mexico?

>> Horwath: Well, they say it's going to be easier for them to to raise money for these generation and transmission projects.

And the people of New Mexico will have, a greener, more efficient electric grid.

In this deal, they are also making a, a couple, three, maybe three years of rate credits, too.

And, you know, as a part of these deals, there always be like rate credits and a bunch of community benefits, and nonprofit activity and stuff like that.

But, yeah, I mean, I think that the case for the deal would be to allow, PNM to build out all, you know, these the a greener grid and then do it in an easier way.

>> Jeff: Not everyone is buying that side of the negotiating tables kind of pitch for all of this.

You caught a community feedback meeting.

Not too long ago.

There's been some pretty serious community pushback.

What did you hear at that meeting?

Why are folks opposed to this?

>> Horwath: Well, one of the big reasons that they're opposed is, Blackstone has, investments in data centers.

When their investment vehicles, they fund data centers and, a lot of people went up there and said that they don't want, you know, Blackstone to come in and and build a bunch of data centers, to be fed off of, you know, the grid that they have.

And so that a lot of people kind of saw, like, a conflict of interest between their data center business and, the electric utility business.

Now, Blackstone, you know, they say that they're there's no relationship between, you know, their data center, business and their infrastructure find that they're two separate things and everything like that.

But, I mean, I think that, again, as we talked about at the beginning, of the segment here, I think that people just don't like the term private equity.

and I think a lot of New Mexicans don't like the idea of, somebody, you know, managing their electric grid from Park Avenue, New York.

I think a couple of years ago, we saw what happened when, Avangrid came in and tried to buy PNM.

And that deal was rejected, too.

And I think that there's almost just this, faultier in New Mexico where New Mexicans want New Mexicans to run.

You know, our infrastructure here and a lot of people are just concerned about, you know, what are Blackstone█s motivations here, Did they- Are they going to steward the electric grid in a responsible way?

>> Jeff: Gotcha.

So ultimately, this decision is going to be up to the Public Regulation Commission, which we call the PRC.

That is a three member body appointed by the governor that does exactly what its name suggests that it does.

Let's pull the curtain up on PNM or excuse me, on the PRC just a little bit.

What is their reputation in terms of regulatory environment in New Mexico?

And the way it compares to the rest of the country.

>> Horwath: From a Wall Street perspective and Wall Street, you know, they'll rate this.

So look at all the regulatory commissions across the nation.

And they say, you know, they'll rank them on, Their friendliness to investors.

And New Mexico has always been one of the least friendly jurisdictions for, you know, Wall Street investors, people looking to invest in utilities.

And that's just it.

And that actually might be a part of the reason why, the PNM perhaps doesn█t have better, better, corporate, bond ratings is because that's, that's more of a liability they face.

They're not going to always get, the rate increases that they ask for, and it's kind of tough, getting a deal through this commission.

So, Yeah, New Mexico definitely has a reputation for not being the friendliest places, for Wall Street.

>> Jeff: So unfriendly to Wall Street.

But what about ratepayers?

What is our reputation?

Or the way we compare to the rest of the nation in terms of the environment for ratepayers?

>> Horwath: You know, it's kind of it's hard to measure.

A little bit.

I mean, obviously, you know, electric bills have been going up.

I think it's, you know, I don't have, like, the stats in front of me right now about what our rates are compared to other jurisdictions and everything like that.

But I can say that the the PRC, they don't always give the rates that PNM and other utilities request.

You know, I I've seen firsthand these rate cases and, you know, the utilities are getting, as much, return on investment as they as they want to you here.

I know that, so I don't I don't think it's the, like a terrible place to be as a ratepayer but at the same time, I mean, you know, New Mexico is also a poor state.

You and a lot of people don't even have electricity.

So, you know, I guess that's all relative.

Gotcha.

>> Jeff: Either way, regardless of who's getting the short or long end of the stick here, this is a massive decision for the PRC coming up.

What's the process and timeline for when that decision is going to be made?

What happens next?

>> Horwath: Yeah, there's actually kind of a kink in the process right now just because, of this, of this motion filed by Prosperity Works, which I think we might talk about, about a stock sale last year.

So there's there's been like a little hiccup in the case, but let's, there's been a pause in the main case as they decide this other issue, but the PRC just told me this morning that they're going to come out with, like, a new schedule for, hearings and everything in the next couple weeks.

Coming up pretty soon here.

>> Jeff: Yeah.

Let's dive into that kink just a little bit.

A Blackstone affiliate bought a whole mess of stock last year.

Tell me a little bit about that stock purchase.

>> Horwath: Yeah.

In, I think it was May of last year.

Blackstone had purchased, $400 million worth of shares in TXNM, and that put them at about like 7.5 something percent ownership interest.

So they have they already have a 7% stake in, TXN and now but, prosperity works as an Albuquerque nonprofit.

And they filed a motion in this PRT case saying that that transaction was illegal because, you need the companies need permission from the Public Regulation Commission to enter into, like, a merger agreement.

And the attorney general Raul Torrez had, filed a motion saying that this, you know, this this needs to review this transaction.

The stock sale needs some review, to see whether, these two companies violated the law.

TXNM, Blackstone, they say, no, you know, we can we can buy shares of the company, without PRC approval.

As long as, we don't get like a full ownership stake in it, you know, that's 7%.

They don't have any voting shares or anything like that.

So, yeah, they're they're they're kind of saying, well, if anybody buys TXNM or utility stock, will they need approval?

But, the other people are saying no, that this was actually part and parcel of the merger transaction.

And, you know, the stock sale came in at $50 a share.

And this, merger agreement, I think it comes in at like 61.25 a share.

So it was definitely, you know, that was definitely a deal for Blackstone.

Just looking at what the stock price is trading up, but, the commission is going to review that issue.

>> Jeff: So, Justin, if I'm hearing you correctly, the argument from Prosperity Works and from the New Mexico Department of Justice, Raul Torres, the attorney general, essentially is that this big old purchase of stock of TKM by Blackstone is essentially a fig leaf and a way for them to kind of start to get their claws into that company anyway.

Am I hearing their argument right?

>> Horwath: Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, I think that their argument is that the record shows that it was a part of the original merger agreement.

So that this was it like a separate random transaction, that it was it was a part of the agreement.

And for whatever reason, you know, they didn't seek approval for the stock sale.

You know, I mean, I think if nothing else, we could say that they didn't TXNM And Blackstone definitely didn't ask the commission, you know, before if this is okay, they just get it.

They did it.

They went through with it.

So you know, we'll have to we'll have to see what the, the hearing examiner and the, the commission says about that sale.

>> Jeff: Gotha, And like you just said, they did get kind of a bro rate when they bought all those shares from TXNM Aside from kind of digging through filings as they come in and watching the evidentiary hearings and all of that, what else are you looking for in this story going forward?

What can we expect under your byline?

>> Horwath: I mean, I think, I mean, obviously the first thing that we're looking for in this that the Albuquerque Journal own that the newspaper is just when this deals, you know, what's going to happen with this deal, whether it's going to go through, etc.. But after that, I, I mean, just I would really like to if the deal goes through, just evaluate how Blackstone is stewarding, New Mexicans electric grid and maybe make some comparisons to, you know, they, bought up, utility in Indiana and maybe look up there to see, you know, how Indiana repairs, have been treated, ever since that transaction.

And, and so, yeah, I mean, there's a lot of different angles to this as a newspaper.

We're we want to look out for our, our readers and make sure that everything is, is transparent and filed out in the open and, and that people are informed about whether their electric bill is going to go up or whether they're going to have a new, you know, wind- windfarm in their backyard or whatever it is.

Yeah, >> Justin This is a huge story and one that we would not have been able to get to on our own.

Thank you so much for helping us catch up to it, and we'll look forward to your reporting in the future.

>> Horwath: Thanks for having me Thanks to Justin Horwath.

You can find his continued coverage of the Blackstone acquisition at abqjournal.com.

And thanks to everyone who contributed to this week's Journalist Bonanza.

Join us here next week when we will explore the newly appointed leadership at the Albuquerque Police Department, including a one on one interview with Police Chief Cecily Barker.

For New Mexico PBS, I'm Nash Jones.

Until next week, stay focused.

Funding for New Mexico in Focus is provided by viewers like you.