>>> HELLO EVERYONE AND WELCOME TO "AMANPOUR AND CO.".

HERE'S WHAT'S COMING UP.

>> THE EU SEALS A TRADE DEAL WITH INDIA AND CANADA BEGINS A STRATEGIC PARTNERSHIP WITH CHINA.

WAS MARK CARNEY RIGHT?

I ASK FORMER CANADIAN POLITICIAN MICHAEL, THEN, [ SPEAKING A GLOBAL LANGUAGE ] THE TAIL, A NEW DOCUMENTARY FOLLOWING A FARMER WHO FOUND SOLACE IN AN UNLIKELY COMPANION.

I SPEAK WITH THE OSCAR- NOMINATED DIRECTOR.

PLUS -- >> IT'S ENTIRELY DRIVEN BY THE MOODS, ATTITUDES AND SUPERSTITIONS OF A PRESIDENT, WHO IS MORE UNBOUNDED THAN ANY PRESIDENT WE'VE BASICALLY HAD IN THE MODERN ERA.

>> NEW YORK TIMES OPINION COLUMNIST THOMAS FRIEDMAN TELLS WALTER ISAACSON WHY HE THINKS TRUMP'S POLITICS ARE NOT AMERICA FIRST BUT ME FIRST.

>> "AMANPOUR AND CO."

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AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS WHERE PBS STATIONS FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

>> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM EVERYONE, I'M BIANNA GOLODRYGA, SITTING IN FOR CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR.

NOW, A SPATE OF NEW TRADE AGREEMENT SHOW HOW AMERICA'S GLOBAL PARTNERS ARE HEDGING THEIR BETS AGAINST TRUMP'S VOLATILE TARIFF POLICY.

IN NEW DELHI INDIA, AND THE EUROPEAN UNION FINALIZE WHAT THEY CALL THE MOTHER OF ALL DEALS.

AND BRITAIN'S PRIME MINISTER STARMER, HEADS TO CHINA TODAY ON A FOUR DAY MISSION SEEKING NEW INVESTMENT DEALS THERE.

CANADA IS ALSO NEGOTIATING A NEW STRATEGIC PARTNERSHIP WITH BEIJING AND PRESIDENT TRUMP ISN'T HAPPY ABOUT IT.

HE THREATENED CANADA WITH 100% TARIFFS IN A POST ON FOOD SOCIAL.

CANADA'S PRIME MINISTER SAW ALL OF THIS COMING, SPEAKING IN SWITZERLAND HE CALLED FOR MIDDLE POWERS TO PREPARE FOR THE END OF THE RULES-BASED INTERNATIONAL ORDER, WARNING, QUOTE, IF WE ARE NOT AT THE TABLE, WE ARE ON THE MENU.

AMERICAN HELPED PROVIDE PUBLIC GOODS, OPEN SEA LANES, A STABLE FINANCIAL SYSTEM, COLLECTIVE SECURITY AND SUPPORT FOR FRAMEWORKS FOR RESOLVING DISPUTES.

SO, WE PLACED THE SIGN IN THE WINDOW.

WE PARTICIPATED IN THE RITUALS AND WE LARGELY AVOIDED CALLING OUT THE GAPS BETWEEN RHETORIC AND REALITY.

THIS BARGAIN NO LONGER WORKS.

LET ME BE DIRECT.

WE ARE IN THE MIDST OF A RUPTURE, NOT A TRANSITION.

>> HE CALLS CARNEY'S WARNING A WAKE-UP CALL FOR WESTERN DEMOCRACY.

HE'S ALSO THE FORMER PRESIDENT OF CENTRAL EUROPEAN UNIVERSITY AND HE JOINS ME.

WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, SO, IN YOUR OPINION, IS THAT MR.

CARNEY RIGHT, ESSENTIALLY SAYING MIDDLE POWERS LIKE CANADA AND EU MEMBERS CAN ONLY SURVIVE BY NOW ADMITTING THAT WE ARE IN A WORLD WHERE AS HE PUT IT, THE STRONG DO WHAT THEY CAN?

>> I THINK HE IS RIGHT.

I THINK WE ARE FACING A WORLD DIVIDED INTO THREE BIG LOCKS, THE UNITED STATES AND THE WESTERN HEMISPHERE, CHINA AND EAST ASIA AND RUSSIA, RIGHT AT THE BORDER OF EUROPE, AND NONE OF THESE POWERS, CHINA, RUSSIA, AND THE UNITED STATES ARE RESPECTING THE SOVEREIGNTY OF OTHER STATES AND THAT WAS THE BASIS OF THE RULES-BASED INTERNATIONAL ORDER, SO WE ARE IN A NEW WORLD AND HE SAYING LITTLE --MIDDLE STATES I CANADA, MOST STATES DON'T HAVE THIS KIND OF NUCLEAR POWER, FINANCIAL POWER, THESE MIDDLE STATES HAVE TO GET TOGETHER, TRADE WITH EACH OTHER, BEGIN TO PLAY ONE BIG POWER OFF AGAINST FOR SURVIVAL.

>> SO DOES THE STRATEGY THEN FOR MARK CARNEY HELP STABILIZE A NEW TYPE OF SYSTEM OR DOES IT HELP BREAK IT DOWN, THE CURRENT SYSTEM, BREAK DOWN SOONER?

>> THAT'S A VERY GOOD QUESTION.

I THINK HE HOPES, CLEARLY, THAT IT STABILIZES.

MIDDLE POWERS WANT STABILITY, YOU KNOW, OUR VOTERS, PEOPLE IN THE STREETS, THE THEY WANT STABILITY, SO HE'S HOPING THAT DIVERSIFICATION OF OUR ECONOMIC FRIENDS IN CANADA IS GOING TO STRENGTHEN OUR ECONOMY, IT'S NOT GOING TO PUT US INTO CONFLICT WITH AMERICA, THAT'S THE PROBLEM, HE IS HOPING THAT HE CAN DO DEALS WITH CHINA THAT DON'T SO INFURIATE THE AMERICANS THAT THEY THEN CLOBBER US WITH TARIFFS.

SO HE'S PLAYING A GAME THAT'S FULL OF RISKS, AND I THINK HE HAS GAMBLED THAT THE OLD ORDER IS GONE.

HE IS GAMBLING THAT A FREE- STATES LIKE WE HAD, FROM 1988 ONWARDS IS GONE.

SO, IF THE OLD WORLD IS GONE, LET'S TRY AND BUILD A NEW ONE BUT YOU ARE QUITE RIGHT TO MAKE THE POINT, HE WANTS STABILITY.

I DON'T THINK HE WANTS TO BLOW, HE DOESN'T WANT TO HAVE FURTHER INSTABILITY IN THE GLOBAL ORDER.

>> YET, HE WASN'T SUBTLE IN TERMS OF SPEAKING DIRECTLY AND RESPONDING DIRECTLY TO PRESIDENT TRUMP, IN SOME OF THE COMMENTARY, THE BLISTERING COMMENTARY WE HEARD FROM PRESIDENT TRUMP.

I'M NOT EVEN PUTTING WORDS IN HIS MOUTH, HE LITERALLY SAID CANADA SURVIVES BECAUSE OF AMERICA.

HERE'S WHAT MARK CARNEY THEN SAID.

>> WE LIVE IN AN ERA OF GREAT RIVALRY, THAT THE RULES-BASED ORDER IS FADING.

THE STRONG CAN DO WHAT THEY CAN AND THE WEAK MUST SUFFER >> CANADA GETS A LOT OF FREEBIES FROM US BY THE WAY, THEY SHOULD BE GRATEFUL ALSO BUT THEY'RE NOT.

THEY SHOULD BE GRATEFUL TO US.

CANADA, CANADA LIVES BECAUSE OF THE UNITED STATES, REMEMBER THAT, MARK, THE NEXT TIME YOU MAKE YOUR STATEMENTS.

>> CANADA DOESN'T LIVE BECAUSE OF THE UNITED STATES.

CANADA THRIVES, BECAUSE WE ARE CANADIAN.

>> REALLY IMPRESSIVE AND MEMORABLE COMMENTARY AND EVEN DEFIANCE, FROM THE PRIME MINISTER, WE SHOULD ALSO NOTE, NOT JUST A POLITICIAN, HE HIMSELF WAS A CENTRAL BANKER SO HE KNOWS WHAT'S AT STAKE HERE.

BUT I'M WONDERING, IF THE ACTIONS MATCH SOME OF THE RHETORIC, BECAUSE THEN, WE TURN TO SEE PRESIDENT TRUMP THREATENING 100% TARIFFS ON CANADA AFTER THE ANNOUNCEMENT OF NEW TRADE DEALS WITH CHINA, NOW THE TREASURY SECRETARY SAID THAT ONLY APPLIED TO FREE-TRADE NEGOTIATIONS AND DEALS THAT THEY MADE, WHICH MARK CARNEY SAID WAS NOT THE CASE.

GIVEN ALL OF THIS, THOUGH, I MEAN, DO THIS IS CANADA NOW REALLY BEING PUT ON THE BACK FOOT AND HAVING TO WONDER, HOW THESE TYPES OF THREATS IMPACT THE COUNTRY'S ECONOMY?

>> LOOK AT, WE'VE BEEN UNDER THREAT REALLY FOR A YEAR, WE WERE THE FIRST COUNTRY IN THE LINE OF FIRE WHEN TRUMP TOOK OVER AND LAUNCH THIS NEW TARIFF OFFENSIVE THAT HAS GONE GLOBAL.

SO WE'VE HAD THREATS OF THIS TARIFF LEVEL, THAT TARIFF LEVEL AND CARNEY IS MAKING THE JUDGMENT THAT HE'S NOT CLEAR WHAT'S GOING TO STICK, WHAT ISN'T GOING TO STICK.

I THINK HE'S MADE THE JUDGMENT, AND THIS IS A BIG RISK, THAT THE OLD FREE-TRADE WORLD THAT, THE AGREEMENT WE ONCE HAD IS DEAD AND HE'S GOING TO HOPE TO NEGOTIATE SOMETHING NEW BUT IS MAKING A FURTHER ASSUMPTION WHICH IS THAT, IT'S SO MUCH IN AMERICA'S INTEREST TO HAVE FREE- TRADE.

WE ARE SO INTERDEPENDENT, THE UNITED STATES DEPENDS ON THE UNITED, DEPENDS ON CABINET AS MUCH IF NOT MORE THAN CANADA DEPENDS ON THE UNITED STATES, THAT'S THE IDEA HERE.

WE SHIP A LOT OF ELECTRICITY, OIL, LUMBER, A LOT OF ALUMINUM, AND, THAT IS GOING TO FEED INTO DOMESTIC PRESSURE ON MR.

TRUMP.

IF PRESIDENT TRUMP IMPOSES TARIFFS ON CANADA, IT HAS BLOWBACK DOMESTICALLY, SO CARNEY IS MAKING THE ASSUMPTION THAT, AS A POLITICIAN, TRUMP WILL GET THIS BLOWBACK AND EVENTUALLY COME TO A DEAL WITH CANADA.

AND IT'S NOT JUST AN ECONOMIC BLOWBACK, THE PRESIDENT IS GETTING HUGE BLOWBACK FOR THE EVENTS THAT ARE OCCURRING IN MINNEAPOLIS, SO, I THINK MR.

CARNEY IS MAKING THE ASSUMPTION THAT TRUMP DOESN'T HOLD ALL THE CARDS HERE.

AND IT IS POSSIBLE TO GET SOME KIND OF DEAL, NOT FREE-TRADE, NOT THE OLD, BUT SOMETHING, THAT ALLOWS THE CANADIAN ECONOMY TO, YOU KNOW, KEEP GOING AND, AS HE DIVERSIFIES.

CARNEY HAS A PROBLEM WHICH IS, HE NEEDS TO DIVERSIFY, HE NEEDS TO DO A LOT TO BOOST OUR PRODUCTIVITY.

HE NEEDS TO MAKE OUR ECONOMY STRONGER, HE NEEDS, YOU KNOW, ABOUT 10 YEARS TO GET THAT WORK DONE.

SO HE HAS A TIME PRESSURE BUT HE IS GAMBLING THAT MR.

TRUMP HAS A TIME PRESSURE WHICH IS DOMESTIC PRESSURE, ON THE PRESIDENT, THAT WILL FORCE HIM TO MAKE A DEAL WITH CANADA.

>> AND AT LEAST PUBLICLY WE ARE NOT HEARING THAT TYPE OF POSTURING FROM THE PRESIDENT OR ANY OF HIS TOP CABINET OFFICIALS AS YOU SAW IN DAVOS, BASICALLY, ALL OF THE OFFICIALS WERE SAYING PUBLICLY THAT THE UNITED STATES IS THE MOST POWERFUL, THE STRONGEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD, THE RICHEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD, SO, IT'S INCUMBENT ON OTHER COUNTRIES TO THEN BOW TO WHATEVER DEMANDS THAT WILL THEN ENRICH THEIR OWN ECONOMY.

I WANT TO ASK ABOUT AN OP-ED IN THE NEW YORK TIMES FROM COLUMNIST CONSERVATIVE COLUMNIST ROSS, WHO CLAIMS THAT CARNEY'S PLAN FOR MIDDLE POWERS TO WORK TOGETHER IS PROBABLY EASIER SAID THEN DONE AND LET ME QUOTE FROM IT, IT'S WORTH CONSIDERING WHERE THE LOGIC OF CARNEY'S VISION OF WORLD ORDER MIGHT LEAVE, CERTAIN MIDDLE POWERS AND ECONOMIES CAN SOMETIMES WORK TOGETHER AGAINST GREATER ONES.

IN CRUCIAL AREAS, THOUGH, THE NEW WORLD ORDER IS NOT TRULY MULTIPOLAR AND IT'S MIDDLE POWERS ARE ILL-EQUIPPED TO BANDWAGON, RATHER THEY OFTEN FACE A BINARY CHOICE IN WHICH THE MORE INDEPENDENCE THEY ASSERT FROM THE UNITED STATES THE MORE THEY RISK SUBORDINATION TO CHINA.

THAT DOES SEEM TO BE WHAT IS PLAYING OUT WELL YOU HAVE CAN AND THE UNITED KINGDOM, REALLY EXTENDING A HAND TO CHINA AND XI JINPING, IT DOES SEEM LIKE THE EU IS BEING MORE HESITANT SO WOULD YOU AGREE WITH THAT BINARY FRAMING?

>> I THINK ROSS WOULD SAY THAT, WOULDN'T HE?

PERSPECTIVE.

I THINK HE'S FORGETTING THIS IS A BIG WORLD, YOU KNOW, WE HAVEN'T MENTIONED ANYTHING ABOUT LATIN AMERICA, HUGE ECONOMIES, WE HAVEN'T MENTIONED THE ENORMOUS IMPORTANCE OF EUROPE AS A TRADING PARTNER.

I DON'T THINK THAT CANADA HAS A CHOICE OF EITHER COZY UP TO THE AMERICANS ARE YOU COZY UP WITH THE CHINESE.

CANADA WILL TRY AS BEST IT CAN TO PLAY ONE SIDE OFF THE OTHER, INFURIATING BOTH, SOMETIMES, BUT WE'VE BEEN AT THIS FOR A VERY, VERY LONG TIME.

THE COUNTRY IS STILL IN PLACE AFTER YOU KNOW, A COUPLE OF HUNDRED YEARS, NEXT-DOOR TO THE UNITED STATES.

AND I THINK WE DON'T BELIEVE THAT OUR CHOICES IS SUBMISSION TO ONE POWER BLOCK OR ANOTHER.

AND, I THINK WE HAVE TO REMEMBER THAT THE WORLD HAS CHANGED MUCH MORE THAN I THINK ROSS IS UNDERSTANDING.

I MEAN, YOU KNOW, 20 YEARS AGO, INDIA WAS NOT THE ECONOMIC GIANT THAT IT IS.

BRAZIL WAS NOT THE ECONOMIC GIANT THAT IT IS.

YOU KNOW, LOOKING FORWARD YOU CAN SEE AFRICA BECOMING A TREMENDOUSLY IMPORTANT POWER.

RIGHT NOW, EUROPE, RIGHT NOW IS A HUGE POWER, ALL OF THESE ARE POTENTIAL MARKETS, ALL OF THESE ARE PLACES WHERE MIDDLE COUNTRIES LIKE CANADA CAN DO BUSINESS, AND ALL OF THE COUNTRIES IN THE MIDDLE RANGE, AS THEY FACE THIS HUGE PRESSURE FROM CHINA AND THE UNITED STATES, THEY ARE GOING TO HAVE A STRONG INTEREST IN GETTING TOGETHER AND PUSHING THIS PRESSURE BACK, BECAUSE NO ONE WANTS TO BE A SLAVE TO, YOU KNOW, THE NEW IMPERIAL POWERS OF THE 21st CENTURY.

YOU KNOW, I SAY THIS PERSONALLY, I WAS EDUCATED IN THE STATES, I LOVE THE UNITED STATES, BUT NO ONE IS GOING TO FORCE CANADA INTO A DEPENDENT POSITION ON THE UNITED STATES.

IT'S JUST NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

MARK CARNEY IS TAKING AND THEN THERE'S THE RHETORIC AT LEAST PUBLICLY THAT WE ARE HEARING FROM THE NATO SECRETARY GENERAL WHO HAS HELPED QUITE A CLOSE RELATIONSHIP WITH PRESIDENT TRUMP AND TOLD MEMBERS OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT JUST YESTERDAY, PRESIDENT TRUMP WAS, QUOTE, DOING A LOT OF GOOD STUFF, LET'S LISTEN TO WHAT ELSE HE SAID.

>> SO PRESIDENT TRUMP IS DOING GOOD STUFF, I DON'T MIND HIM PUBLISHING TEXT MESSAGES AND IF ANYONE THINGS HERE AGAIN, THAT THE EUROPEAN UNION CAN DEFEND ITSELF WITHOUT THE U.S., KEEP ON DREAMING.

YOU CAN'T, WE CAN, WE NEED EACH OTHER.

>> I THINK HE'S SPEAKING FROM A MILITARY PERSPECTIVE BUT TRADE IS ALSO A BIG FACTOR HERE.

IS HE WRONG, IN YOUR VIEW?

>> I UNDERSTAND WHY HE IS SAYING THIS, HE'S THE SECRETARY GENERAL OF AN ALLIANCE THAT MEETS AMERICAN COMMITMENT TO EUROPEAN SECURITY SO HE WILL WE ARE ALREADY IN A ROLL NOW, IN WHICH EUROPE IS SUPPLYING ALL THE FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE AND MOST OF THE MILITARY ASSISTANCE TO KEEP UKRAINE IN THE FIGHT THAT HARDLY INDICATES THAT UNITED STATES IS THE DECISIVE PLAYER HERE.

LOOK, EVERY EUROPEAN HOPES THAT AMERICA WILL CONTINUE TO MAKE IT'S BASICALLY NUCLEAR GUARANTEE OF THE SECURITY OF EUROPE, BUT IF THAT GOES, IF TRUMP BASICALLY SAYS, I'M NOT GOING TO SEND YOU KNOW, AMERICAN TROOPS OR, YOU KNOW, SOLDIERS OR ANYTHING TO DIE FOR LITHUANIA OR THE BALTIC OR ANY OF THE STATES IN EUROPE, THEN EUROPE WILL HAVE TO FACE THAT REALITY, AND LET'S NOT FORGET THAT YOU KNOW, FRANCE HAS A NUCLEAR DETERRENT, BRITAIN HAS A NUCLEAR DETERRENT, YOU KNOW, WE NEED TO THINK SOME NEW AND SLIGHTLY SCARY THOUGHTS BUT THE ASSUMPTION THAT EUROPE CANNOT DEFEND ITSELF WITHOUT THE UNITED STATES, WE NEED TO THINK NEW THOUGHTS ABOUT THAT AND CANADA NEEDS TO THINK THOSE THOUGHTS ABOUT THE ARCTIC AND THE SECURITY ISSUES.

AMERICANS HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THAT IF TRUMP PLAYS THESE GAMES, AND THEIR MOSTLY GAMES, THEN, EVERYBODY ELSE HAS TO THINK THOUGHTS THAT THEY HAVEN'T THOUGHT FOR 80 YEARS, AND THAT IS WHAT CARNEY WAS SAYING AT THE DAVOS SPEECH.

WE HAVE TO IMAGINE THE WORLD A NEW, MAKE NEW TRADE PARTNERSHIPS, NEW DEFENSE PARTNERSHIPS, BEEF UP OUR OWN INVESTMENT IN OUR OWN SECURITY, BECAUSE WE CANNOT RELY ON THE UNITED STATES, PERIOD.

>> AND WE'VE HEARD THAT FROM THE FRENCH PRESIDENT OVER THE PAST FEW YEARS AS WELL.

I'M JUST WONDERING, WHAT IT, IF ANY LESSONS CAME OUT OF THE HOLE GREENLAND DEBACLE?

SOME OF THESE MIDDLE ECONOMIES ARE REALLY COMING TOGETHER AND THEY CAN STAND UP TO THE PRESIDENT?

AT LEAST TO SAVE FACE AND HAVE THEM WALK AWAY FROM SOME OF THESE THREATS, OR DID IT EXPOSE MORE RUPTURE WITHIN THE ALLIANCE?

>> I THINK IT EXPOSES MORE RUPTURE BETWEEN THE UNITED STATES AND THE REST OF THE ALLIANCE AND I THINK IT SHOWS QUITE A LOT OF UNITY ON THE OTHER SIDE, THE EUROPEAN SIDE OF THE ALLIANCE WHO SIMPLY THOUGHT, LOOK, ARE YOU TELLING ME, SERIOUSLY, MR.

PRESIDENT, THAT YOU WANT TO OWN TERRITORY IN A EUROPEAN NATIONSTATE, THAT'S A MEMBER OF NATO, THAT FOUGHT SIDE-BY-SIDE WITH YOU IN AFGHANISTAN, YOU SEEM TO IGNORE THE WAYS IN WHICH THE ALLIANCE HAS FOUGHT SIDE-BY-SIDE WITH YOU?

ARE YOU SERIOUSLY TRYING TO DO THIS?

BECAUSE IF YOU ARE, WE ARE ALL PUSHING BACK.

I THINK, AMERICANS NEED TO UNDERSTAND JUST HOW DEEPLY THIS CROSSED EVERY LINE THAT EUROPEANS CAN LIVE WITH, IN THEIR RELATION TO THE AMERICANS, NOW, DOES THIS, IS THIS STORY OVER, WE DON'T KNOW.

MR.

MARK RUTTE IS HAVING DISCUSSIONS WITH MR.

TRUMP ABOUT A GREENLAND DEAL AND WE STILL DON'T KNOW WHAT IT MEANS, BUT IT'S PRETTY CLEAR TO ME, THAT EUROPE HAS HAD ENOUGH OF THIS KIND OF GAMEPLAYING FROM THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES.

>> EUROPE IS STILL RELYING ON THE UNITED STATES, AS WE CONTINUE TO HEAR FROM EUROPEAN LEADERS AND FROM THE LEADERS OF UKRAINE, THAT IT IS REALLY THE UNITED STATES THAT ULTIMATELY DECIDES HOW AND WHEN AND THIS WERE CAN COME TO AN END.

MICHAEL IGNATIEFF, THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME.

I APPRECIATE IT.

>> PLEASURE.

>> DONALD TRUMP'S CHALLENGES TO THE POST-WORLD WAR II INTERNATIONAL ORDER ARE RAISING TENSIONS IN THE MIDDLE EAST, WHERE THE REGION IS CAUGHT UP IN AN ANXIOUS WAITING GAME TO SEE IF THE U.S.

PLANS TO STRIKE IRAN.

MILITARY ACTION OVER THE REGIME'S CRACKDOWN ON NATIONWIDE DEMONSTRATIONS, SAYING THE MILITARY IS LOCKED AND LOADED AND READY TO GO.

IF IRAN VIOLENTLY KILLS PEACEFUL PROTESTERS.

NOW THE USS LINCOLN STRIKE GROUP IS IN THE INDIAN OCEAN PREPARED TO ASSIST IN ANY POTENTIAL OPERATIONS.

THE DETAILS FROM INSIDE IRAN.

>> IRAN'S LEADERSHIP IS SENDING A VERY STRONG AND DEFINED MESSAGE TO THE UNITED STATES AND SPECIFICALLY OF COURSE, TO THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION, YOU CAN SEE IT HERE ON THIS GIGANTIC POSTER ON REVOLUTION SQUARE IN CENTRAL TEHRAN.

THE MESSAGE ON THIS POSTER IS, IF YOU SO THE WIND, YOU WILL REAP THE WHIRLWIND, OBVIOUSLY MEANING IF THE UNITED STATES ATTACKS IRAN, IRAN WILL RETALIATE, IN A MASSIVE WAY, WHICH COULD OF COURSE, LEAD TO A MAJOR MILITARY CONFRONTATION BETWEEN THE UNITED STATES AND IRAN, AND THAT'S ALSO SOMETHING THAT'S ON THE MINDS OF MANY OF THE PEOPLE THAT WE'VE BEEN SPEAKING TO HERE AS WELL.

>> [ SPEAKING IN A GLOBAL LANGUAGE ] >> I'M NOT SURE WHAT TO SAY.

I THINK THEY ARE ALL COLLABORATING WITH ONE ANOTHER AGAINST THE INTEREST OF THE IRANIAN PEOPLE.

>> LAUGHMAC I DON'T THINK TRUMP CARES TO ATTACK.

HE'S MORE BLUFFING.

>> THAT'S AS TRUMP WEIGHS HIS OPTIONS ON WHAT TO DO NEXT.

THE U.S.

HAS PULLED TOGETHER A SUBSTANTIAL MILITARY FORCE BUT THE IRANIAN SAY THEY'VE REPLENISH THEIR STOCKPILES OF BALLISTIC MISSILES AND ARE READY TO HIT BACK HARD, ANYTIME.

OF COURSE, ALL OF THIS COMES IN THE WAKE OF THOSE LARGE PROTESTS, THAT HAPPENED HERE IN IRAN IN THE EARLY PART OF JANUARY, WHEN YOU'RE OUT ON THE STREETS HERE, YOU CAN SEE THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE STILL TRAUMATIZED BY WHAT HAPPENED.

>> I HAD TO LEAVE HOME.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO SAY, THE SITUATION IS VERY BAD.

NOW THAT THE INTERNET CONNECTION IS RESTORED, WE ONLY NOW KNOW THAT SO MANY WERE KILLED.

>> WE TURN TO THE NORTHEAST AREA, WHERE TENSIONS REMAIN HIGH BETWEEN THE GOVERNMENT AND LOCAL BRITISH FORCES AS A FRAGILE CEASE-FIRE SEEMS TO BE HOLDING.

ATTEMPTS BY DAMASCUS TO FORCIBLY INTEGRATE THE KURDS INTO SERIOUS MILITARY OUR MEETING RESISTANCE.

SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT, IS THERE AS HE ASSESSES THE IMPACT OF CHANGING U.S.

ALLIANCES AND RENEWED THREATS TO CIVILIANS AND DETAINEES.

>> THE MEN AND BOYS ARE ON HIGH ALERT, MACHINE GUNS AT THE READY, CHECKPOINTS AROUND KURDISH CONTROLLED TOWN OF, THEY FEAR THE SYRIAN ARMY, FRESH FROM VICTORIES AGAINST THEIR FELLOW KURDS, AND IT'S COMING THEIR WAY.

>> FOR YEARS, WE WERE ALLIES HE SAYS, AND AT THE LAST MOMENT THE AMERICANS GO WITH ISIS.

>> THE LEADER OF THE AL QAEDA AFFILIATE.

THE U.S.

POSITION IS THE TIME INTEGRATE INTO THE SYRIAN ARMY.

NEXT MORNING, A SCHOOL HOSTING PEOPLE FLEEING THE FIGHTING, WE FOUND FEW WERE BUYING AMERICA'S PRESCRIPTION.

>> [ BLEEP ] >> THE SAME GOES TO THE UN AND THE SECURITY COUNCIL, HE SAYS.

HE HE CAME WITH HIS WIFE, SONS AND GRANDCHILDREN, LIKE SO MANY, UPROOTED, TIME AND TIME AGAIN.

IN A COUNTRY RIPPED APART BY NEARLY 15 YEARS AT WORK, THEY ARE BEYOND THE BREAKING POINT.

>> [ SPEAKING IN A GLOBAL LANGUAGE ] >> CARD WE HUMAN, AS THIS WOMAN?

WE MOVED FROM, TO ALEPPO, ENOUGH, ENOUGH, WE ARE DYING!

>> COMMITS THE VIOLENCE AND CHAOS LIES THIS DESOLATE CAMP, HOME TO MORE THAN 2000 FOREIGN WOMEN AND CHILDREN WHO FLOCKED TO SYRIA TO LIVE IN THE ISLAMIC STATE, NOW GUARDED BY KURDISH FORCES.

CAMP ADMINISTRATOR HAKEEM, TELLS ME THE ATMOSPHERE TURNED MENACING WHEN THE DETAINEES HEARD THE KURDS WERE UNDER ATTACK.

THEY SAID, ISIS IS RETURNING, SHE TELLS ME, AND WHEN THAT HAPPENED, WE WON'T LEAVE ONE OF YOU ALIVE.

>> ONE OF THE GUARDS DROVE US AROUND THE CAMP.

WE WERE TOLD IT WAS TOO DANGEROUS TO WALK.

WE WENT INSIDE THE TENT OF ONE WOMAN FROM BRITAIN, AFRAID TO BE IDENTIFIED BUT DESPERATE TO TALK.

>> BECAUSE I'M DIFFERENT, I'M NOT SYRIAN, NO ONE.

I'M SCARED FOR MY FAMILY.

>> OF COURSE.

>> THAT'S COLLOQUIAL AND ARABIC FOR --SHE SAID THE UK REVOKED HER CITIZENSHIP.

>> I WAS RAISED IN ENGLAND.

I DON'T HAVE ANYBODY ANYWHERE ELSE.

MY MOM, MY DAD, MY BROTHER, ALL LIVE IN ENGLAND.

>> THE OTHER, MUCH BIGGER CAMP FOR ISIS WOMEN AND CHILDREN IS NOW UNDER SYRIAN GOVERNMENT CONTROL.

THE U.S.

IS IN THE PROCESS OF MOVING THE 7000 ISIS MEN WHO WERE IN KURDISH RUN PRISONS TO MORE SECURE FACILITIES IN IRAQ.

ON THE DEFENSIVE, THE KURDS ARE PREPARING FOR BATTLE.

THESE YOUNG VOLUNTEERS LOAD BULLETS INTO THEIR MAGAZINES, THEY, TOO, ACCUSED THE U.S.

OF THE TRAIL.

>> AMERICA HAS ALWAYS PURSUED ITS INTEREST SAYS THIS FIGHTER WHO ASKED THAT WE NOT SHOW HIS FACE.

AS SOON AS IT GETS WHAT IT WANTS, AMERICA SELLS YOU OUT.

THAT SAID, FOR THEM, IT'S TIME TO GO TO THE FRONT.

>> NOW WE TURN TO A NEW DOCUMENTARY TELLING A STORY TALE.

THE "THE TALE OF SILYAN" FALLS A FARMER IN NORTH MacEDONIA STRUGGLING TO MAKE A LIVING OFF OF THE LAND AFTER HIS FAMILY MOVED TO GERMANY FOR WORK, HIS LONELINESS IS INTERRUPTED WHEN HE CHOOSES TO TAKE IN A STORK WITH A BROKEN WING.

HERE'S A CLIP FROM THE TRAILER.

[ SPEAKING A GLOBAL LANGUAGE ] "THE TALE OF SILYAN" IS DIRECTED BY OSCAR-NOMINATED DOCUMENTARY DIRECTOR TAMARA KOTEVSKA, AND TAMARA JOINED ME FROM NORTH MacEDONIA.

GOOD TO SEE YOU, SO THIS DOCUMENTARY FOLLOWS THE STORY OF NICOLA WHO IS A FARMER WHO IS FACING THE PERILS OF A STRUGGLING ECONOMY IN NORTH MacEDONIA.

HOW DID YOU COME ABOUT IN FINDING NICOLA AND WHAT STOOD OUT TO YOU ABOUT HIM THAT MADE YOU WANT TO MAKE THIS DOCUMENTARY?

>> THIS DOCUMENTARY WAS PRIMARILY INSPIRED BY WHITE STORKS.

I STARTED WITH THE IDEA OF FOLLOWING THE WHITE STORKS, CHANGING THEIR FOOD AND MIGRATION OF PATTERNS AND STARTING TO EAT FROM LANDFILLS AND A LOT OF THEM STOPPED MIGRATING AND THEY WERE DYING OUT IN THE LANDFILLS.

FOR ME, IT WAS INTERESTING TO EXPLORE THE DIVERSITY BETWEEN HOW THEY USE TO EAT, WHICH IS FOLLOWING THE FARMERS AND EATING FROM THERE LAND AND HOW THEY FEED NOW, FROM THE LANDFILLS.

BY FOLLOWING THEM ON THE LAND, WHERE THE FARMERS WERE WORKING, THAT'S WHERE I MET NICOLA AND HIS FAMILY, TOGETHER WITH OTHER FAMILIES, BUT NICOLA STOOD OUT BECAUSE OF JUST THE SPECIAL CONNECTION HE HAD WITH HIS FAMILY, THE OPEN RELATIONSHIP AND LOVE THEY HAD AND THEY WERE NOT SHYING AWAY FROM THE CAMERA AND THEY WERE CINEMATIC CHARACTERS, SO THAT'S WHY I DECIDED TO WORK WITH THEM.

>> THEY REALLY BECAME SORT OF, YOU KNOW, MESMERIZED TO WATCH AS A FAMILY, JUST AS MESMERIZING WHERE THE STORKS, AND IT'S INTERESTING TO HEAR DREW YOU TO TELL THE STORY, AND YOU HAPPEN TO COME UPON NICOLA TO BE THE HUMAN VOICE FOR THE TALE OF WHAT HAPPENED WHEN AN ECONOMY TURNS SOUTH AND YOU SEE THESE STORKS GOING FROM A LIFE WHERE THEY WERE FEEDING OFF OF FRESH FRUITS AND VEGETABLES TO FEEDING OFF OF REMNANTS AND GARBAGE IN A LANDFILL.

IT'S ALSO BASED ON A STORY THAT YOU GREW UP LOVING, A FOLKTALE, THAT'S THE NAME, SILYAN, TELL US ABOUT THAT.

>> "THE TALE OF SILYAN" IS THE VERY FIRST DEAL I GOT FROM MY FARMING GRANDPARENTS.

I GREW UP WITH SPORTS AROUND ME WHEN I WAS A CHILD, ON THE FIELD, ON THE COUNTRYSIDE WITH MY GRANDPARENTS, SO IT WAS A POPULAR TAIL, AND IT SHAPED MY LOVE TO ANIMALS, AND THE WHITE STORKS HAVE BEEN MY FAVORITE ANIMAL SINCE FOREVER BUT I NEVER THOUGHT ABOUT USING THIS TALE UNTIL VERY LATE IN THE FILM, WHEN ACTUALLY NICOLA FOUND THE STORK AND THEY STARTED A STRONG BOND WHICH REMINDED ME OF THIS.

>> THEY STARTED A STRONG BOND AFTER HIS FAMILY, HIS WIFE, HIS DAUGHTER, HIS SON-IN-LAW AND THEIR YOUNG DAUGHTER MOVED TO GERMANY TO FIND MORE PERMANENT AND STABLE WORK, AND NICOLA WAS LEFT STRUGGLING, NOT ONLY WITH THE FARM BUT ALSO, HOW TO MAINTAIN PROVIDING RESOURCES AND FINANCES FOR THE FAMILY.

LET'S PLAY A CLIP FROM THE FILM, AS HE'S DEVELOPED THIS BOND WITH THE STORK, WELL HE'S ON FACE TIME WITH HIS FAMILY IN GERMANY.

>> [ SPEAKING IN A GLOBAL LANGUAGE ] EXPLAINED TO HER VIEWERS WHAT DILEMMA HE'S ALREADY STRUGGLING WITH HERE, AS IT COMES, AS IT RELATES TO MAINTAINING HIS FARMLAND?

>> WELL, BECAUSE THE FARMERS ARE FACING A SERIOUS CRISIS IN MacEDONIA, AND THIS HAS BEEN HAPPENING FOR AGES, REALLY, MANY OF THEM ARE FORCED TO MIGRATE, SO WE HAVE ONE OF THE STRONGEST WAVES OF ECONOMIC MIGRATION AND MANY OF THEM ARE FORCED TO SELL THEIR LANDS.

ONE OF WHICH IS NICKEL -- NICOLA, WHERE HE'S FACING THE INTERNAL CONFLICT BECAUSE HE DOESN'T WANT TO GIVE UP ON THIS WAY OF LIFE, HE LOVES THIS WAY OF LIFE AND AT THE SAME TIME, HE HAS TO FIND A WAY TO SUPPORT HIS FAMILY, AND HE HAS TO FIND ANOTHER JOB FOR HIMSELF, TO BE FINANCIALLY STABLE, AND THE MAJORITY OF THE FARMERS, PARADOXICALLY AND UP IN THE LANDFILLS BECAUSE THEY ARE IN A CRITICAL AGE WHERE THEY CAN'T FIND A NEW PROFESSION, A NEW JOB BUT THEY ALSO CAN'T DO THE OLD ONE SO USUALLY THEY ARE TAKING THIS REALLY LOW-KEY JOBS ON THE LANDFILLS ARE CLEANERS, SO HE ENDS UP WORKING ON THE LANDFILL.

BUT HE STILL DOESN'T WANT TO FROM HIS LAND.

>> AND THEN YOU SEE THE STORK, REALLY KEEPING HIM COMPANY, AND KEEPING HIM GROUNDED AS WELL, GIVING HIM ANOTHER MISSION TO HELP RESTORE THE STORK BACK TO HEALTH.

WATCHING THE DOCUMENTARY, I HAVE TO SAY, IT FEELS LIKE YOU ARE WATCHING A FEATURE FILM, EVEN THE PRODUCERS AS WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THIS FILM IN OUR MORNING MEETING, WE SAID, WE COULDN'T DETERMINE WHETHER, IS THIS REALLY A DOCUMENTARY, ARE THESE ACTORS, AND YOU YOURSELF HAVE PREVIOUSLY NOTED THAT THERE HAS BEEN A CERTAIN REJECTION OF TRADITIONAL DOCUMENTARY FILMMAKING AMONGST YOUR PEERS, SO WHY DID YOU DECIDE TO APPROACH THIS DOCUMENTARY FROM THIS LENS?

>> WELL, FIRST OF ALL, I ALWAYS WAS VERY INTERESTED IN NEW FORMS OF FILMMAKING AND NOT STAYING IN ONE PARTICULAR BOX AND, FOR ME, EVEN IN THE TIMES OF HONEY LAND AND THE FILMS BEFORE HONEY LAND, THE DOCUMENTARIES I WAS MAKING EXPERIMENT AND FIND NEW, ENGAGING WAYS FOR AUDIENCES TO IMMERSE IN DOCUMENTARIES AND TO FIND A GREATER ART IN DOCUMENTARIES, NOT JUST A JOURNALISTIC APPROACH OR A TALKING HEAD APPROACH.

FOR ME, THIS IS THE ART OF CINEMA, OF HOW TO SHAPE REALITY INTO THE TOOLS THAT FILM CRAFT IS GIVING US.

SO, THAT IS WHY I DECIDED THIS.

>> YOU MENTIONED, YOUR PREVIOUS OSCAR-NOMINATED DOCUMENT THE HONEY LAND AND THE PARALLELS ARE THE ROLES THAT THE ANIMALS PLAY IN THIS END, IS THE LARGEST WHITE STORK POPULATION, HOW DID YOU MANAGE TO FILM THE STORKS SO CLOSELY?

>> IT'S BEEN A LONG RESEARCH, REALLY, WE DIDN'T KNOW TOO MUCH ABOUT STORKS BUT I HAD TO GET ACTIVISTS AND BIOLOGISTS, WHO GAVE US THE SECRETS OF THE STORK WORLD.

WHERE WE CAN FIND THEM, THEY GAVE ME AND THE TEAM THE PIN LOCATIONS, ABOUT 100 PIN LOCATIONS OF NESTS THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY, AND WE WERE JUST GOING AROUND, REALLY, AND DISCOVERING LOGISTICS ABOUT WHICH NEST IS THE BEST, HOW WE CAN POSITION OURSELVES TO SHOOT, MANY TIMES, WE WERE APPROACHING PEOPLE'S HOUSES, WHERE WE SEE A GOOD BALCONY, ON THE LEVEL WHERE WE CAN SEE OR WHAT KIND OF TECHNOLOGY WE CAN USE, AND EVENTUALLY, WHEN WE DECIDED TO USE THIS PARTICULAR DRONE, WE HAD TO BUILD A BARN IN THE WAY, FOR THE STORKS NOT TO BE AFRAID OF IT.

>> THE STORK IS A BEAUTIFUL ANIMAL AND YOU COME TO APPRECIATE IT, WATCHING THIS FILM, I DON'T WANT TO REVEAL TOO MUCH ABOUT IT BUT IT DOES NOTE.

IT'S A VERY CLEVER, ENGAGING DOCUMENTARY.

TAMARA KOTEVSKA, THANK YOU SO MUCH, GOOD LUCK WITH THE FILM, I APPRECIATE YOU JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THE INVITATION.

>>> "THE TALE OF SILYAN" IS NOW STREAMING ON DISNEY+ AND HULU.

>>> WE RETURN TO THE UNITED STATES, WITH A CLOSER LOOK AT WHAT IS HAPPENING IN THE WHITE HOUSE AND WHY, FROM ICES VIOLENT CRACKDOWN IN MINNEAPOLIS TO THE PRESENT 70 MINUTE SPEECH AT DAVOS RIDDLED WITH INACCURACY AND VERBAL JABS.

OUR NEXT GUEST WRITES THAT TRUMP'S POLITICS OR NOT AMERICA FIRST, THERE ME FIRST.

OPINION COLUMNISTJOINS WALTER ISAACSON.

>> THANK YOU, TOM FRIEDMAN, WELCOME BACK TO THE SHOW.

>> GREAT TO BE WITH YOU, WALTER.

>> TODAY MARK CARNEY GAVE A SPEECH THAT I THINK MAY BE THE MOST SIGNIFICANT ARE ONE OF THE MOST SIGNIFICANT IN 80 YEARS, SINCE WINSTON CHURCHILL GAVE HIS IRON CURTAIN SPEECH.

IT WAS ABOUT, HE SAID, THE END OF THE AMERICAN-LED WORLD ORDER.

IS THAT WHAT'S HAPPENING NOW?

>> YOU ARE ASKING A CRITICALLY IMPORTANT QUESTION.

I THINK IT COULD BE HAPPENING, I THINK THAT THERE ARE PEOPLE WITHIN THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION WHO ARE ACTING IN WAYS THAT WILL INEVITABLY MAKE IT HAPPEN, BUT I DON'T THINK WE'RE THERE YET, AND I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF PUSHBACK AGAINST IT.

IF, NOWHERE ELSE IN THE FINANCIAL MARKETS, YOU SAW HOW THE MARKET REACTED SO NEGATIVELY BY TRUMP SEEMING TO ENGAGE IN WHAT PRAYER MR.

CARNEY CALLED, A RUPTURE, BASICALLY, WITH THE ATLANTIC LINES.

>> AND TRUMP HAS TALKED ABOUT THINGS THAT ARE AMERICA FIRST, BUT YOU HAVE A COLUMN SAYING, HE'S NOT REALLY DOING WITH AMERICA FIRST, IT'S KIND OF THE FIRST RIGHT NOW?

>> YEAH, YOU KNOW, IF YOU LOOK AT THE HISTORY OF AMERICAN FOREIGN POLICY, WALTER, WHICH YOU HAVE, GOING BACK TO YOUR KISSINGER BOOK, YOU WOULD SAY THAT THE KIND OF RUPTURE, THE KIND OF 180 DEGREE TURN THAT WE ARE SEEING BY THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION ON FOREIGN POLICY, OR ATTEMPT TO TURN, IS THE KIND OF THING YOU ONLY ASSOCIATE WITH A MAJOR WAR, OR A HUGE ECONOMIC EXPLOSION TO THE DOWNSIDE.

WHAT IS SO STRIKING ABOUT THIS MOMENT, IS, THIS IS NOT HAPPENING IN THE CONTEXT OF A MAJOR WAR OR SOME KIND OF ECONOMIC COLLAPSE.

IT'S ENTIRELY DRIVEN BY THE MOODS, ATTITUDES, AND SUPERSTITIONS OF A PRESIDENT, WHO IS MORE UNBOUNDED THAN ANY HAD, IN THE MODERN ERA.

HE'S A MAN OF EXTREME VIEWS, WHO IS BASICALLY ABLE TO GOVERN, AT LEAST FOR THESE TWO YEARS, WITH A SUPREME COURT, THE HOUSE, THE SENATE AND THE WHITE HOUSE, ENTIRELY IN HIS AUNTS BUT NOT ONLY IN HIS HANDS, WITH A REPUBLICAN PARTY, THAT IS BASICALLY CHOSEN TO SURRENDER ITS RESPONSIBILITIES FOR ADVICE AND CONSENT, FROM THE SENATE, AND SPENDING POWER FROM THE HOUSE, TO THE PRESIDENT.

SO, WE'VE NEVER SEEN THIS COMBINATION OF A PRESIDENT WITH RADICAL VIEWS ON FOREIGN POLICY, UNBUFFERED, ENTIRELY BY THE ADMINISTRATION, AND THAT'S WHY YOU GET THIS MOMENT, WHERE, THERE'S NO WAR, NO ECONOMIC CRISIS DRIVING THIS.

IT'S JUST THE MAN.

SO I'M LOATH TO DESCRIBE THIS AS A PERMANENT SHIFT, BECAUSE, I DON'T THINK UNDERNEATH IT, IS THE PLUMBING AND WIRING THAT REQUIRES SUCH A SHIFT.

SO MUCH IS COMBUSTING IN TRUMP'S OWN HEAD.

>> WENT CARNEY SPOKE AT DAVOS, HE TALKS ABOUT, HE TOOK UP THE CAUSE OF, THAT TALKED ABOUT THE COLLABORATIONS INSTINCT IN- HOUSE SYSTEMS ONLY WORK IF PEOPLE GO ALONG WITH THINGS THEY KNOW ARE TRUE, LIKE THEY PUT THE SIGN IN THE WINDOW SAYING, UNITE IN THE OLD SOVIET UNION, EVEN THOUGH THEY DON'T BELIEVE THAT, AND HE SAID IT'S TIME FOR THE REST OF THE WORLD ESPECIALLY MIDDLE COUNTRIES LIKE CANADA, TO TAKE THE SIGN DOWN AND SAY, THIS IS ALL FAKE, WE ARE NO LONGER GOING TO PLAY ALONG.

WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THAT?

>> BY HAPPENSTANCE I SPOKE AT THE UNIVERSITY OF BRITISH COLUMBIA IN VANCOUVER LAST WEEK.

AND, I WAS INTRODUCED BY THE DIRECTOR OF THE SCHOOL, AND, IN THE PROCESS OF INTRODUCING ME, SHE REFERRED TO PRIME MINISTER CARNEY'S REMARKS IN DAVOS, WHICH HAD JUST HAPPENED THE DAY BEFORE OR TWO DAYS BEFORE, AND, THE AUDIENCE JUST ERUPTED IN CHEERS, A LOT MORE CHEERS THAN I DID, AND MY CANADIAN HOST POINTED OUT TO ME IN THE GROCERY STORES NOW, THEY HAVE MARKED WITH CANADIAN FLEX, CANADIAN MADE PRODUCTS.

THIS IS NOT ONLY INSULTING TO THEM AND FRIGHTENING TO THEM BUT THE OLD SAYING, THE ENEMY GETS A VOTE, CANADA IS NOT OUR ENEMY, EVEN IF TRUMP IS TRYING TO PRESENT THEM THAT WAY.

THE WORLD WILL PUSH BACK.

IT WILL PUSH BACK THROUGH MARKETS, IT'LL PUSH BACK THROUGH, LOOK AT THE PRICE OF GOLD, JUST AS A PROXY.

WHAT IS THAT ABOUT, OKAY?

IT'S NOT JUST PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, WORRIED ABOUT THE INSTABILITY OF THE MOMENT, IT'S CENTRAL BANKS AROUND THE WORLD, PUTTING THEIR DOLLARS INTO GOLD, RATHER THAN U.S.

TREASURY BILLS.

SO, THE WORLD GETS A VOTE, AND DONALD TRUMP CAN STEAMROLL LINDSEY GRAHAM AND TOM COTTEN AND HIS OWN PARTY, BUT, YOU KNOW, THE WORLD WILL PUSH BACK.

IT WILL RESIST.

>> ONE OF THE WAYS THAT IS RESISTING IS IT CREATED AN AGREEMENT WITH CHINA NOW, ON MORE OPEN TRADE.

DO YOU THINK WE COULD POSSIBLY SEE CHINA TAKING ADVANTAGE OF ALL OF THIS, AND BECOMING IN SOME WAYS A DE FACTO LEADER OF THE MIDDLE COUNTRIES?

>> YOU KNOW, CHINA WILL ATTEMPT TO DO THAT.

IT HAS ITS OWN PROBLEMS, THOUGH, ITS OWN ASYMMETRIC ECONOMIC RELATIONSHIP WITH SO MANY COUNTRIES, BECAUSE IT'S OVERPRODUCTION, SO, I DON'T THINK THAT WOULD BE EASY, I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANY REPLACING AMERICA, BUT THE REASON CHINA AND RUSSIA, WALTER, HAVE ALWAYS VOTED OTHERWISE, IS BECAUSE THEY ACTUALLY UNDERSTAND AMERICA'S SECRET SELVES, THEY UNDERSTAND OUR SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT COMPETITIVE ADVANTAGE, WHICH IS, THEY HAVE VESSELS, CHINA AND RUSSIA, AND WE HAVE ALLIES.

AND WE HAVE ALLIES BECAUSE WE'VE HAD THIS KIND OF RECIPROCAL RELATIONSHIP WITH THEM, OR A RELATIONSHIP WHERE WE ARE OVERLY GENEROUS BECAUSE WE BELIEVE THE STRENGTH OF THE SYSTEM, WHEN THE SYSTEM IS STRENGTHENED, THE BIGGEST COUNTRY WILL BENEFIT THE MOST.

WE HAVE ALLIES, THEY HAVE VESSELS, AND THE ONE THING THEY HAVE BOTH TRIED TO DO, FOR DECADES, IS, AND THAT THEY DREAMT OF DOING, IS BREAKING UP NATO, AND BREAKING UP THE DE FACTO AMERICAN ALLIANCES IN THE ASIAN-PACIFIC.

AND, THEY NEVER IMAGINED A DAY WHERE OUR OWN PRESIDENT WOULD FACILITATE THAT.

>> ONE OF THE TOPICS WAS GREENLAND, OF COURSE.

WHEN TRUMP SAID WE MAY INVADE GREENLAND, I THOUGHT IT WAS JUST HIS REALITY TV SHOW THING, AND I DON'T THINK HE WAS EVER THINKING OF INVADING GREENLAND BUT WASN'T IT IMPORTANT TO PUSH OUR NATO ALLIES TO DO MORE IN A DEFENSIVE GREENLAND?

>> WE'VE HAD A STORK RELATIONSHIP WITH THE SOVEREIGN IN GREENLAND, THE DENMARK GOVERNMENT, IN PARTNERSHIP WITH THE GREENLAND GOVERNMENT.

IT BASICALLY HAS ALLOWED US, SINCE WORLD WAR II, TO BUILD, STOCK, AND DEPLOY BOTH FORWARD RADAR AND WHATEVER FIGHTER JETS WE WANT, ANYWHERE IN GREENLAND.

WE'VE HAD THAT RELATIONSHIP.

AND THE NOTION THAT, EITHER RUSSIA OR CHINA ARE MOVING ON GREENLAND, IS LUDICROUS.

THERE'S NO PROOF OF THAT.

THERE IS CONCERN THAT AS THE ICE MELTS THERE WILL BE A GRAB OVER THE ARCTIC, BUT THE FACT IS, WE HAVE HAD ALL THE MILITARY ACCESS TO GREENLAND WE NEED.

TRUMP INSISTS WELL BECAUSE WE INVEST ENOUGH IN IT.

WE DON'T OWN GERMANY OR WE DON'T OWN JAPAN BUT WE'VE HAD FORWARD BASES THERE, SINCE WORLD WAR II.

SO THE WHOLE THING IS JUST LUDICROUS, IT'S A DIVERSION BY TRUMP FOR WHATEVER REASON OR OBSESSION, OR, YOU KNOW, OR OBSESSION, YOU KNOW, THIS NOTION I READ THAT OH, US SILLY PEOPLE, WE TAKE HIM LITERALLY, NOT FIGURATIVELY.

WHAT THE HELL DOES THAT MEAN, WHEN THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES SPEAKS, YOU'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO TAKE HIM LITERALLY?

WHEN HE TELLS YOU, YOU KNOW, IF YOU DON'T GIVE ME GREENLAND, YOU KNOW, YOU WILL SEE WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN TO YOU?

>> LET ME ASK YOU ABOUT THE DAVOS, THE EUROPEAN INTERNATIONAL CONSENSUS OVER THE PAST 60 YEARS OR SO.

DIDN'T IT GET SOME FUNDAMENTAL THINGS WRONG, INCLUDING THE REWARDS OF GLOBALIZATION, NOT DISTRIBUTED FAIRLY THAT HAS CAUSED THIS BACKLASH AND CAUSE PEOPLE LIKE PRESIDENT TRUMP AND OTHERS AROUND EUROPE AND THE WORLD TO HAVE A POPULIST BACKLASH AGAINST US?

>> WELL, LET'S SEE, LAST TIME I CHECKED, MORE PEOPLE GROW OUT OF POVERTY FASTER IN INDIA AND CHINA THAN ANY TIME IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD.

NOW, YOU CAN SAY THAT THEIR GROWTH OUT OF PROPERTY CAME AT THE EXPENSE OF AMERICAN MIDDLE- CLASS, IN THE MIDWEST, IN AMERICA, AND THAT'S TRUE.

TO SOME DEGREE.

AS A COUNTRY, WE SHOULD HAVE DONE MORE TO PROTECT THESE PEOPLE, BUT, I DO THINK THAT GLOBALIZATION HAS A UPSIZE AND ITS DOWNSIDES, AND HER JOB WAS TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE UPSIDE AND TO CUSHION THE DOWNSIDE.

WE DIDN'T DO ENOUGH OF THAT, IN AMERICA, WHEN WE NEEDED TO, AT THE SAME TIME, IF YOU GO TO LOTS OF THESE TOWNS NOW, THEY HAVE LIFTED THEMSELVES UP AND TRANSFORMED THEMSELVES WITH NEW INJURIES --INDUSTRIES AND WHATNOT, IT'S NOT PERFECT, IT'S NOT WHERE IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUT WITH THE ALTERNATIVE, SHOULD WE HAVE OPTED FOR AUTARCHY, HOW DID THAT WORK OUT WHEN THE WORLD WENT THAT DIRECTION BEFORE WORLD WAR I. SO, YOU KNOW, THERE'S AN EASY STRAW MAN AT DAVOS AND AN EASY, VERBAL SELF-CONGRATULATION THERE ON BOTH OF OUR EXTREMES BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, YOU KNOW, THE FACT IS THAT THE WORLD THAT WE HAVE TODAY, THE WORLD THAT HAS BEEN RELATIVELY MORE PROSPEROUS, MORE PEACEFUL, THEN ANY PERIOD IN HISTORY, IS SO MUCH A PRODUCT OF AMERICA BEING THE WAY AMERICA WAS AND THE FACT THAT YOU HAD A U.S.

CHINA TRADING RELATIONSHIP IN THE MIDDLE OF IT, THAT, WITHOUT WHICH, WELL, I DON'T WANT TO LIVE TO SEE THAT WORLD WHERE BOTH OF THOSE THINGS BREAK DOWN BECAUSE WHEN THAT HAPPENS, YOU WILL MISS THIS PERIOD WHEN IT'S GONE.

>> ANOTHER REASON I THINK PERHAPS WITH THE POPULACE BACKLASH THAT WE ARE SEEING, WAS IMMIGRATION, AND EMIGRATION GOING TOO FAR, IT SEEMED.

DID WE GET SOME OF THAT WRONG OR WAS THERE A WAY TO TRY AND SOLVE THAT ISSUE?

>> I THINK WE GOT IT ABSOLUTELY WRONG I THINK DEMOCRATS AND PARTICULARLY THE LOST --LAST ADMINISTRATION HAVE A LOT TO ANSWER FOR.

I'VE BEEN ADVOCATING THE SAME MESSAGE ON IMMIGRATION NOW, SINCE TRUMP REALLY MADE IT AN ISSUE IN HIS FIRST ADMINISTRATION.

I'M FOR A VERY HIGH WALL.

A HIGH WALL FROM ONE END OF THE MEXICAN BORDER TO THE OTHER WITH A VERY BIG GATE, OKAY, BECAUSE UNLESS YOU CAN ENSURE AMERICANS THAT WE ARE GOING TO LOSE A LOT OF THEM, WHEN IT COMES TO IMMIGRATION.

I'M SUPER PRO-IMMIGRATION.

I'M FOR THE HIGH-END, HIGH EDUCATED IMMIGRATION AND I'M FOR ANY PATIENT WHO CAN BUILD A BOAT OUT OF MILK CARTONS AND GET TO OUR SHORES, WOW, I WANT THAT PERSON.

I WANT THE HIGH ENERGY AND A HIGH IQ IMMIGRANTS, BUT WE ARE NOT GOING TO GET THEM BECAUSE WE WILL NOT HAVE A POLITICAL CONSENSUS UNLESS WE CAN CONTROL THE BORDER.

AND THAT'S WHY I URGED IN MY COLUMN YESTERDAY, MY BROTHERS AND SISTERS IN MINNESOTA THAT I'M SO PROUD OF FOR PROTECTING THEIR LAW-ABIDING, HARD- WORKING, CULTURALLY ENRICHING NEIGHBORS, EVEN IF SOME OF THEM ARE HERE ILLEGALLY, OKAY, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, IT'S VITAL TO ME THAT DEMOCRATS, IF THEY WANT TO DO WELL IN THE MIDTERMS, THEY NEED TO MAKE IT VERY CLEAR, THEY ARE FOR A HIGH WALL WITH A BIG GATE, THEY ARE FOR LEGALIZING IMMIGRATION.

BOTH PARTIES, YOU KNOW, HAVE FACT IS, DEMOCRATS CAME TOGETHER UNDER THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION, WITH SENATOR LANGFORD OF OBAMA, WITH A PLAN TO ACTUALLY OVERHAUL ALL OF IMMIGRATION REFORM, TO GIVE US, WHAT I CALL A HIGH WALL WITH A BIG GATE AND DONALD TRUMP KILLED THE BILL, BECAUSE HE WANTED TO USE THIS AS A WEDGE ISSUE.

>> TALKING ABOUT YOUR MOST RECENT COLUMN, WHEN YOU SPEAK AS SOMEBODY WHO WAS BORN IN MINNEAPOLIS, AND GREW UP IN THAT AREA, TELL ME WHY IS IT COMING APART SO BADLY IN MINNEAPOLIS, WHY HAS THIS BECOME THE FOCAL POINT FOR THINGS?

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, MINNESOTA IS A CLASSIC EXAMPLE OF A COMMUNITY THAT HAD SOME VERY RAPID DEMOGRAPHIC CHANGES, MAYBE TOO QUICKLY, FOR THE STATE TO FULLY ABSORB, BOTH IMMIGRANTS FROM SOMALIA AND MORE BROADLY, SO THE TENSION WAS THERE.

AT THE SAME TIME, IT'S A COMMUNITY THAT HAS A LEGACY OF A REAL SOCIAL CONSCIOUSNESS, AND THEY WANT TO MAKE THIS WORK, AND THEREFORE, MADE MINNEAPOLIS A SO-CALLED SANCTUARY CITY, THAT WASN'T GOING TO ARREST OR FACILITATE THE ARREST EASILY, OF ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS.

AND, TRUMP, HE KNEW IT WAS A PERFECT PLACE TO RATHER THAN CALMLY SIT DOWN BRING TOGETHER, SAY LET ME CREATE A BILL, YOU KNOW, FOR LEGALIZING IMMIGRATION AND CONTROLLING THE BORDER, LET'S WORK TOGETHER WITH THE PEOPLE OF MINNESOTA.

HE SAW THIS AS JUST A GREAT WAY TO PURSUE HIS OWN POLITICS, WHICH IS THE POLITICS ALWAYS OF DIVISION, NOT ADDITION, HOW DO I DIVIDE, DIVIDE, DIVIDE, DIVIDE, SO I WIN THE ELECTION BY 50.001%, AND THAT KIND OF LEADERSHIP, IN THIS KIND OF HUGELY COMPLEX SITUATION WILL GIVE YOU THIS KIND OF EXPOSURE.

BUT I HAVE TO SAY ONE THING, DEMOCRATS NEED TO UNDERSTAND THAT THERE ARE A LOT OF VOTERS IN THIS COUNTRY AND I'M ONE OF THEM, AND INDEPENDENT VOTERS, WHO ARE NOT GOOD WITH JUST AN OPEN BORDER.

IN MY CASE IT'S BECAUSE I WANT IMMIGRATION, I WANT MORE OF IT, BUT IT'S GOT TO BE LEGAL IMMIGRATION AND IF WE DON'T CONTROL THE BORDER, YOU WILL NOT HAVE A NATIONAL CONSENSUS FOR THAT, AND THAT WOULD BE A TRAGEDY.

>> DO YOU THINK I.C.E.

HAS A RIGHT TO BE IN MINNEAPOLIS?

>> THERE'S NO QUESTION THAT I.C.E., IN THEORY, WAS CREATED, IN PART, TO CONTROL THE BORDER AND TO FIND ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS.

WE DID THAT UNDER OBAMA, WE DID THAT UNDER BIDEN, A LITTLE.

WE'VE DONE IT ALL ALONG.

I'M NOT FOR WHAT THEY DID IN MINNEAPOLIS WHICH WAS DELIBERATE PROVOCATION, SENDING 3000 PEOPLE INTO A CITY, TO FIND NOT JUST ILLEGAL PEOPLE, BUT TO ACTUALLY START PULLING PEOPLE OUT OF THEIR HOMES AND STOPPING THEM ON THE STREETS, JUST BECAUSE THEY LOOKED FOR THEM.

I LOOK FOR THEM.

HECK, THEY COULD HAVE PULLED ME OFF.

>> LET ME READ YOU SOMETHING FROM YOUR COLUMN THAT STRUCK ME AS REALLY STRONG WORDS ABOUT I.C.E.

IN MINNEAPOLIS.

YOU SAY, HAMAS, REFERRING TO THE PALESTINIAN GROUP THAT HAS BEEN CONTROLLING THE GAZA STRIP, YOU SAY HAMAS AND I.C.E.

SHARE VERY ONE VERY INVISIBLE --VISIBLE TRAIT THAT I THOUGHT I'D EVER SEEN THE UNITED STATES, ALMOST ALL OF THEIR FOOT SOLDIERS WEAR MASKS.

MY EXPERIENCE AS A REPORTER IN THE MIDDLE EAST TAUGHT ME THAT PEOPLE WEAR MASKS BECAUSE THEY ARE UP TO SOMETHING BAD AND DON'T WANT THEIR FACES CAPTURED I THOUGHT OFTEN IN BEIRUT AND GAZA.

I NEVER EXPECTED TO SEE IT IN MINNEAPOLIS.

UNPACK THAT FOR ME.

>> WALTER, FACES A FEDERAL AGENCY CHARGED WITH IMPLEMENTING THE CONSTITUTION, FEDERAL LAWS, WHY ARE THEY WEARING MASKS?

WHY ARE THEY WEARING MASKS?

THE MINNEAPOLIS POLICE DON'T WEAR MASKS, THE WASHINGTON POLICE DON'T WEAR MASKS, WHY ARE THEY WEARING MASKS?

I THINK IT'S SOMETHING, IT REALLY DELEGITIMIZE THEM, MAKE THEM LOOK EVEN MORE SINISTER, AND MAKES ME WONDER, WHAT THEY ARE UP TO.

>> TOM FRIEDMAN, THANKS SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

I APPRECIATE IT.

>> PLEASURE, WALTER, THANK YOU.

>> FINALLY, TODAY, WE COMMEMORATE THE 6 MILLION SHOES MURDERED DURING WORLD WAR II.

TODAY MARKS HOLOCAUST REMEMBRANCE DAY AND THE 81st ANNIVERSARY OF THE LIBERATION CONCENTRATION CAMP.

PEOPLE GATHERED OUTSIDE THE RUINS OF GAS CHAMBER FOUR TO PAY THEIR RESPECTS TO THE MEN, WOMEN AND CHILDREN EXTERMINATED BY THE NAZIS, SOMEONE WHO EXPERIENCE THESE COURSE FIRST HANDS, IS ONE OF THE YOUNGEST SURVIVORS OF AUSCHWITZ, SHE WAS FIVE YEARS OLD WHEN SHE WAS TAKEN THERE, AND MANY OF HER FAMILY MEMBERS WERE KILLED.

BACK IN 2022, SHE SPOKE TO CHRISTIANE ABOUT GROWING UP IN THE SHADOW OF SUCH VIOLENCE AND WHY SHE FELT COMPELLED TO SHARE HER EXPERIENCE IN HER BOOK, THE DAUGHTER OF AUSCHWITZ.

>> CAN I JUST START BY ASKING YOU, I MEAN, THIS IS JUST MONUMENTAL, THE STORY, THE HISTORY, AND THE WAY YOU HAVE SURVIVED TO TELL IT, BUT WHAT MADE YOU, AFTER ALL THESE YEARS, DECIDE TO PUT IT DOWN IN A BOOK?

>> I WANT TO LET PEOPLE KNOW WHAT PREJUDICE AND THE FEAR OF THE OTHER THAT HUMANITY HAS TO BE CAREFUL OF HOW THEY BEHAVE TOWARDS EACH OTHER, BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, THE HOLOCAUST DIDN'T HAPPEN IN ONE DAY.

IT HAD TIME TO GET WORSE AND WORSE, AND YOU KNOW THE SAYING, YOU FIRST BURN BOOKS AND THEN YOU BURN PEOPLE.

SO, IT'S A WARNING, IT'S A TYPE OF A WARNING.

>> WITH ANTI-SEMITISM AGAIN ON THE RISE IN THE PRESENT DAY, HER TESTIMONY IS AN IMPORTANT REMINDER OF THE DEVASTATING CONSEQUENCES OF UNCHECKED BIGOTRY AND HATRED.

AND THAT'S IT FOR OUR PROGRAM TONIGHT.

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