PBS Hawaiʻi Classics is sponsored by The Olson Trust.

Nino Martin: Okay, great.

Hi there.

Welcome back  again to another Hawaiʻi Now's International Kitchen.

Nice to have you back with us.

Hope  that your weekend was as pleasant as ours.

A little wet one this weekend.

I guess the gods  are with us.

We certainly did need a little bit of precipitation.

We have a fine show today,  and really looking forward to it, myself, because we've had this guest on, coming on now for well  about a month, we've known that you were coming, and I'd like to have you welcome our special guest  today, Madame S.T.

Ting Wong, a very fine chef and teacher now at UCLA.

Welcome to the program.

Madame Wong: Oh good, thank you.

NM: Certainly, it's really an honor MW: It's lovely to be here.

NM: To have you here, and certainly… MW: It's a pleasure.

NM: You're well known in the… MW: Ah, thank you.

NM: …in the culinary arts.

MW: Yes.

NM: You've been teaching… MW: 41 years, NM: 41 years, and not only do you teach  Chinese, but you also teach continental… MW: Continental, that's in China, but over  here in this country, entirely Chinese, because I have no time for others.

NM: Now, how did you get interested in the cooking business?

MW: Oh, ever since I was a child, I loved to see my mother cooking, you see.

But in  Chinese, we cannot go to the kitchen ourselves, but we have a special kitchen that is  for the people to cook for their elders, NM: So then, that's how you  learned it and you pass it on.

NM: I learned to cook by looking at it, and  besides, I had so many chefs in my home, but I won't go to and see the chefs later  when I'm married, then I have the chef of my own, I just look what he's doing.

NM: You certainly have been well known across the country for, for your recipes and  for your teaching skills, certainly, and she's, she's had notables such as Barbra Streisand  take lessons from you and many, many others.

How did you like working with Barbra Streisand?

MW: Oh, wonderful.

Well, she's a lovely girl, and she loved my dishes, especially she lived,  loved my dough when I cook the crispy duck with the steamed dough, you just crazy about  it.

She said exactly like her grandmother's.

NM: Oh, went crazy.

And she's Jewish?

MW: Yes.

NM: Jewish.

MW: And Jewish people just love, crazy about Chinese food.

NM: Oh sure.

MW: Yeah.

NM: Well, we're going to try some today.

MW: Yeah, okay that's good.

NM: And Madame Wong has consented to give us two recipes of hers, one that she's extremely  well known for, and that is the walnut chicken.

MW: Yes.

NM: And one that I asked her to do for us, because it happens to be one of my favorite  dinners, the Sichuan style of cooking, that hot northern Chinese cooking, and that's the... MW: The Sichuan food.

NM: Right.

And that's the spicy, eggplant.

MW: That is a very famous dish, you must know.

Everywhere with Sichuan cooking you  go to the restaurant that's most popular.

NM: The eggplant, huh?

MW: The eggplant.

NM: Well, you see, right there.

So, let's  look at the ingredients now for the eggplant.

You're using here, the long eggplant.

Can  you use the other type?

The bell type?

MW: Sure, sure, just as good, just as good.

NM: Mm hmm so, how many of these would you use for one serving?

MW: Oh, five, about one pound.

NM: One pound.

MW: Yes.

NM: Okay.

And then you have several  ingredients here.

You have what?

MW: Scallion.

NM: Scallions.

MW: That's vitamin C. Ginger is good for health.

Garlic is very, in China, with garlic, you, we use as a curative medical aid for many diseases.

NM: And that's also keeping... MW: Yes, very healthy.

NM: ...keeping people away from you when you don't like them.

MW: Yeah.

NM: You know.

Okay, in addition to that,  we also have some, what here...pork?

MW: That is the pork, ground pork.

Two ounces.

NM: And two ounces of ground pork.

You just put that through a grinder?

MW: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's right.

NM: All right, and then also a little bit of  sugar, some cornstarch, and some salt.

And then another flavor down here that is, is the magic  ingredient.

And that is chili paste with garlic.

MW: Garlic, yes.

NM: Another little bit of garlic there, and a little bit of soy sauce, and  I understand that this particular one is an import from Northern China.

MW: Yes.

NM: And from mainland China.

MW: Red China.

MW: Uh huh.

How did you get it across the border?

MW: Oh, they can, they can export out.

NM: Oh, do they?

Uh huh.

MW: Yes.

NM: Okay.

Well, now that's the eggplant.

Now  the other part will be the walnut chicken, which is a recipe that you're very well  known for.

And tell us what's in there.

MW: That's red pepper, green pepper,  because it's contrast of color, and use—you can use the whole chicken if you  want to, but this is easier for the housewife, so I use chicken breast.

But in cutting, you have  to be uniform—everything has to be uniform.

But I will show you how to bone the chicken.

NM: Okay, and over here.

MW: Over here is an exciting  sauce that is the bean sauce.

NM: And that's, and you tell me now that  you have to use this particular label, that's the Koon Chun.

MW: Yes, yes, some of them are too salty, you see.

That's the reason I have tested ever since I came to America.

NM: You wouldn't happen to have any stock in that company now, would you?

Okay, and here's the  chicken.

That's what it looks like after it gets cut.

It looks nice.

And we'll show you how to cut  that in just a few minutes.

And then some walnuts.

MW: Yes, in halves.

Yes, yes.

NM: About a cup of that.

MW: Yes.

NM: Okay, MW: That's right.

NM: In addition, you have some tenderizer here, which is... MW: Yes, sure, sure.

You know so much, you really know lots of Americans don't know  about that.

That's the tenderizing.

Yeah.

NM: Well see, we're giving  away secrets on this program.

MW: You are so, you're a gourmet.

NM: Okay.

And a little bit of sugar and some other MW: Yeah, yeah that's right.

NM: Other ingredients.

Okay, well why don't we get started on it... MW: Okay, and now I start.

While I'm starting, you can start with the eggplant if you want.

NM: Okay, so you just want me to cut it, just like this, huh?

MW: Yes, cut into three.

Take off the ends.

That's right.

NM: Now you're taking off the skin, and MW: No, no, not the, I'm taking  off the bones and the skin.

NM: Uh huh, okay.

MW: That's the whole piece.

Now there is a sinew, that is the tendon NM: The tendon in there.

MW: Yes.

NM: Well, you just take that... MW: You just grab it off the whole thing.

NM: And there it is.

MW: Yes, now you cut into dice.

NM: It's about a half inch square, three quarters of an inch square MW: Yes, right.

And you put it here.

Now you take off the skin, by all means.

NM: You don't want any skin in there?

MW: Yes.

NM: In other words, you're taking it, defatting it?

MW: Yes.

Now you've been cut into threes or fours, that depends upon  the width of the chicken.

Now, again, dice.

NM: This is really important that  it's done exactly this way, isn't it?

MW: Yes.

NM: And why is that so important?

MW: Because even cutting, if you  one piece big, one piece small, then you, how can you cook evenly?

NM: So, in other words, it's a physical size.

MW: Yes, yes, NM: All these pieces, they all get cooked uniformly MW: In China, when the chef learn cutting takes one year, at least.

Now, it's no more secret.

NM: Now the secret is out, folks.

MW: Yes.

NM: Am I doing this one right  now?

We've cut this into... MW: Fours.

NM: Yeah, fours, each one of them... MW: First half, then half.

NM: Okay, so there you... MW: Now, in order to tenderize... NM: Cut them in fours like that.

MW: Now, in order to tenderize, NM: You're gonna tenderize the chicken now.

MW: Chicken, I'm telling you, the best  way is to use hand.

At the most... NM: There's a little egg white.

One egg white.

MW: One egg white NM: To how much?

MW: A little, half teaspoon of salt.

NM: Half a teaspoon of salt.

So, it's  one egg white and a half a teaspoon of salt to how much chicken would you say?

MW: That's a little over so I put.

Now, one tablespoon of cornstarch.

When you are using  the cornstarch, that is carbohydrate, you see.

So, I'm not starchy, I do not stress using so much  carbohydrate.

So, make it scant, because it's less than one pound meat here.

So, I use this much,  3/4 of a tablespoon of starch, then I mix it.

You can use, mix with your chopsticks, but it's not  even, not smooth.

Now, most of the chefs in the restaurant, they use their hand to mix it well.

NM: It gives it an extra little flavor.

MW: Yeah.

No.

(laughs) Uh, tastier I would say.

NM: Yeah, yeah.

MW: But after the heat, it's  all everything, you know, it's NM: Kill all the bacteria and so forth.

MW: Yes, that's right.

Now this is done.

NM: How long do you leave that there?

MW: You can leave 10 minutes if you want to.

NM: Ten minutes in the egg solution.

MW: Now, while, now I'm doing this here, I'm starting to cook.

NM: Now you've got some oil.

How much oil do you have in the wok?

MW: That's two cups.

NM: Do you believe in wok cooking, or  can this be done on the skillet, also?

MW: You can do that, but the wok cooking is the  most well, you know, why is that the heat is even, you can stir fry, and all the meat is even heated.

NM: Even with electric?

MW: Even with electricity.

Lots of people say,  asking me, why you do not put a ring underneath, I tell you the reason that if you put  a ring that takes away the heat.

That is direct, the wok is direct on there, you see?

NM: I see, I see.

So, in other words, you have to have direct contact with the, with the wok... MW: Yes, yes that's right.

NM: And then it just comes out the side.

MW: Now, now that, now you can test by the temperature of the oil, that's the easiest  thing.

Most of the Americans do not know, how do I know the heat is ready?

Then the easiest way to test oil, if that gets a little brown, then you are sure that is the right temperature to go into that.

NM: Now that is just the top of the scallion.

MW: Yeah, you won't fail if you see, you won't  fail if you go that, you know?

While, let's say, while I'm waiting for the oil to get hot, you  can do this.

Now, put two tablespoons of oil in the pan, because I'm waiting for the oil to  get hot now.

Two tablespoons of bean sauce that is making the sauce mixture NM: is this for the...?

MW: Chicken walnut.

NM: Chicken walnut.

Okay, so we're making two tablespoons, or... MW: Now, you have to do this a little while, so it's well flavored.

Then you put the  sugar.

Now until the aroma comes out, then you know it's the point to put sugar.

NM: How do you know?

What aroma is that?

MW: You just... NM: Oh, yes.

MW: ...smell that.

NM: Oh yeah, just the, just the beans, so you're sweetening  it up a little now, and this both of these burners are at high heat.

MW: Yes.

Now four tablespoons of stock.

NM: Of chicken stock.

MW: If you don't have chicken stock, you can use water, but this is more  flavor.

Four tablespoons of chicken stock.

Now this is done.

The sauce is done.

NM: So, in that sauce, you have about two to three tablespoons of the bean sauce... MW: Two tablespoons.

NM: Two tablespoons of bean sauce.

MW: Now this is done.

The sauce is done.

NM: Okay.

MW: So, you cannot cook it any more.

Just leave it here.

Now I'm frying the chicken.

NM: Okay, just, and what?

Just to make sure that we understand this, it's two tablespoons  of the bean sauce, a little bit of sugar.

MW: I'll let you taste it if you want.

I'll get  you used the other side now, for courtesy sake.

This start, you get the food, get the food.

This  start, we sometimes use the other side to taste the food.

Now you know exactly.

NM: Should I taste that?

MW: Yeah, sure.

MW: You like it?

NM: Oh, very much.

MW: Now, you have to study.

NM: Scallion looks brown.

MW: You have to study the heat.

Not every stove is the same, but the sure way is put the  scallion in the oil.

When that thing gets brown, you are sure that it's ready for deep frying.

NM: No matter how long it stays in there?

MW: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

NM: In other words, just put it in.

Looks like it's... MW: Right, right.

My way of teaching, like [inaudible] my books, you see.

My way of  teaching is so direct, lots of people just say, oh throw into the oil... NM: Mm hm.

MW: But you don't know the temperature.

How can you put a thermometer into that?

NM: So, the temperature is really critical?

MW: Yes, yes, yes, that's right.

NM: What happens if you put the chicken  in there and it's not quite hot enough?

MW: Then, I'm telling you, especially  beef, it will be very tender, uh tough.

NM: Tough.

MW: It will be tough because the heat is not strong enough.

Now I show you the  scaling is getting brown.

Do you see that?

Notice that.

Do you notice that?

NM: Yeah.

MW: That's brown.

Now you can go in.

NM: So, you put the chicken inside the oil?

MW: Now with my cooking, in the book, I said you  can either stir fry or either with my cooking, if you don't want deep fry.

Deep fry is a professional way.

NM: Mm hm.

MW: If you don't want deep fry, you can use two tablespoons of oil to stir  fry.

You understand?

Now, this is a really technique.

Some of the people all stuck together,  you know, that's something wrong with the mixing.

NM: In other words, when you're actually  mixing in there, or in the preparation?

MW: Yeah, mixing in the bowl.

NM: In the bowl, I see.

In other words, if you mix it properly, everything will be coated.

MW: Yes!

That's right.

That's why we use hand, you know.

Hand.

Very few books say that's mixing  with hand, but I've been mixing with hand for the past 40 years, and that's what my mother did.

NM: How long does this take to cook?

MW: Three to five minutes, NM: Three to five.

MW: Over cooking, you spoil the chicken,  making the chicken tough.

The color change now, look at that.

NM: So, it's very white.

MW: Very white.

NM: So, actually, what you're doing  is you're finishing the cooking, even by taking the oil and putting it on top of  the meat here, and just letting it drain through.

MW: Yeah, right.

Now, Chinese cooking, the  main thing needs high heat.

Very important, if the heat is not strong enough, it  won't be good.

That's called searing, NM: Searing, right MW: Now, look at that.

Most of the people have impression that Chinese cooking  is very greasy.

No, you strain up all the oil.

NM: Mm hmm.

MW: Look, all the oil goin' drain out.

Now, what is this  sound?

This sound that means there is water in it.

NM: And that's coming from the chicken.

MW: Now, here.

The chicken is ready, you see?

Now, quick way of doing this, most of the restaurant  do this way, but you can sauté.

Sauté in, that is quick way, too.

You know, sauté quickly.

NM: So, in go the peppers.

MW: Now, one second, just like this, in and out.

NM: They look glazed, beautiful colors bring up those greens and reds.

MW: Now, do my walnuts.

NM: Now the walnuts.

MW: The walnuts, it doesn't need strong heat.

See how well it smells, the pepper?

NM: Mm hm.

You stir those around.

Once you cook the  walnuts too.

How long do you cook those?

MW: Three to five minutes.

That depends upon the  heat.

Most important, Chinese cooking is the heat, you have to study, you have to test, test  it, you see.

No matter what.

Well, this oil, this oil is still too lukewarm.

You see, you  can notice that.

There is water bubbling, you know.

But you can, the only thing is, you  cook longer with walnut, doesn't harm you, cook longer, unless you put on high heat.

My,  that will burn the walnut.

Lots of students burn their walnuts because they put on the high heat.

NM: But you say this is not high heat anymore.

MW: This is not here, high heat.

NM: You brought it down.

MW: Yeah, no, I didn't bring it down.

Your stove  is like that, built like that.

That needs five minutes, because it's strong, not strong enough.

NM: How do you know that the walnuts are done?

MW: I will show you.

It changes color.

NM: It'll be browner or?

MW: Yeah, browner.

I'm famous  for that.

Very, people love it.

NM: Well, that's really looking good.

MW: Now the walnut is brown.

NM: Right.

And they're nice and brown.

Now I'm  wondering, because we're running out of time on this particular show, could you come back and  we can do the eggplant recipe for our friends?

MW: Sure, I would be glad to.

NM: Okay, we'll do that.

We'll do that in two weeks.

MW: Yes.

NM: All right.

The walnuts came out, the  sauce goes back on the bean paste sauce.

MW: Now the chicken goes in.

NM: Into the bean paste.

Okay.

MW: Now everything goes in.

NM: Peppers go in.

Add that color to them, huh.

Looks nice.

MW: Now you toss around.

NM: Ooh, that looks good.

Looks very good.

You've put out a book, or you are putting out a book.

It should be available in April.

Yes, and  probably available here in one of the bookstores.

MW: Yeah, in Hawaiʻi, yes.

NM: Honolulu Bookstore, I believe, is going to be carrying it.

What's the name of your book?

MW: Long-Life, Madame Wong's Long-Life Cookbook.

NM: And you'll be sharing  some of the recipes in that.

MW: Yes, I want to share with the world what  has been good to me and good for a bigger audience.

Now, you put the walnuts.

NM: Do you like your own cooking?

MW: I love it.

NM: There are your walnuts, and they get tossed around.

I'm getting hungry.

MW: I hope you taste it.

NM: Oh boy, really looks good.

You toss  that around for what, a couple of minutes?

MW: Yes, a couple.

Everything is  in my book, the timing, everything.

NM: Yeah, if we can remove some of  these items over here and put it out.

MW: Now the chicken walnut is done.

NM: So be with us here on Hawaiʻi Now for the rest of the week, and we'll see you  again next week.

Bye-bye.

Take care of yourself.